Beginner helmet question (pictures)

[Gordak]

What are the problems with this helmet?



I think the welded halves of the bowl show too much on the shiny side, But I know very little, so I ask anyone willing to point out problems with this peice to please do so!
Thanks!
-Gordak

[Neuraleanus]

who made it? The most striking thing are the terrible looking faux-embossing on the back. I cannot tell about the eyebrows in the front. The welding seam is very visible. It also looks like someone left this helmet out in the rain. I would stay away.

[A_Volpe]

it's also missing the crest! :lol:

...The cheekguards seem a little on the small side. The earguards don't look curved enough, I'd think they'd have a sharper curvature. The eyebrows don't seem defined/sharp enough either. The buckle on the back for the crest looks wrong...As far as I know. I think the ring should be circular not square?
the neckguard looks too rounded I think too.

Hrm...Too iffy for me anyway. sorry

[Gordak]

I found the makers! http://www.whiterosearmoury.co.uk
they had a nice closeup of it.



It costs about $1000.00 !!!!!
-Gordak

[Matthew Amt]

Ave!

If that's a Gallic G, I'd say the biggest problem is that the neckguard is too wide. But if the eyebrows are ambiguous, you could just call it a Gallic E, perhaps. I agree that the ear cut-outs are rather wide. The embossing at the back looks fine to me--Neuraleanus, I'm not sure I understand your objection? Does look badly rust-pitted, but is that just due to the photograph? And I see what you mean about the visible weld. That might be made less visible with some sanding and re-polishing along the middle, more to disguise it rather than actually removing it.

The cheekpieces look fine in size--it's too easy to make them too big these days. I think those sunken crescents at the front edge are "reversed" and should be raised, like the left-hand example here:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/GalG1.jpg

Or this one:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/GalG5.jpg

And yeah, the little ring at the back, but that's minor!

Overall, I'm not sure I'd pay $1000 for it, but in most ways it's better than the Deepeeka Gallic G. I wouldn't get rid of it just because of its problems. Do you already own it, or are you just thinking of buying it?

Hope that's helpful! Vale,

Matthew

[Neuraleanus]

The helmet in the second set of pictures posted by Gordak looks nothing like the helmet that he originally posted. The curvature of the bowl is completely different. Looking at the picture of the first helmet, it appears that instead of having been embossed the back neck ribbing has been applied by layers of sheet metal. Then again, maybe the picture is fooling my eyes. All of the pitting makes details very hard to see. The helmet shown in the last set of pictures looks fine, I wouldn't mind owning one, but the helmet from the first set of pictures is fit only for the trash.

[Comerus Gallus]

Oh!... my God!?
What is the point of this Topic? :?

Gordak, if you are the winner bidder of that rusty helmet at Ebay...
Why you not say that you have it already?... but if not, the bidding is over.
Seems that you have it because you know where it comes from.

I was the first one who bed for that one in ebay, but I lost interest.

Here is in front, and inside...


Anyway the helmet is Cool to me! if you see some Rat members here, they use this helmet in the same way, too wide neck guard, but this one is not too wider than others, just clean up the helm, and ready to Go! :wink:

[Buggnkat]

I have been reading pages here and there is alot of good information, but as for starting out, not much in the way of help for a newbie.

Everyone seems to agree to disagree and while good for a forum, doesn't give a new person a good reference to start.

Every time someone says this vendor is good, someone else points out 100 flaws.

A) How makes one of the most correct for 1st century helmets?

B) What is considered outrageous a price for them, conversely what is considered a FAIR price.

I am very interested, and have become very enamored with Roman Legion and reenacting the period, but I find the lack of direction for new people disturbing. Too many people contradicting one another, and with few Lego's in my area it is tough to get started and do it correctly.

You don't want to show at an event only to have people rip your impressions to shreds.

Thanks!

Greg

[Neuraleanus]

There you'll meet people with experience and can guide you through the maze of what's good and what's bad.

For helmets,
A) As a general guide we want to match what has been found in the archaeological record. You have to check helmets that are offered for sale against what is shown in the reference books. Depending upon the helmet type, roman helmets of the early principate were either spun or raised from a single piece of metal. Welding two pieces together to make the complete bowl is ok provided that you cannot tell. The Romans also kept care of their stuff. A helmet as badly deteriorated as the one of this thread would most certainly have sent the legionnaire in question back to the quartermaster for a replacement.

B)Price? The roman hobby is presently too new and small to make a good judgment. You can get a mass produced helmet, that may only require a few modifications for a few hundred dollars or less. Something custom made will indeed cost around a thousand.

[A_Volpe]

Ok, I admit I'm no expert on helments, my observations are based on what I've researched myself and have seen in reference books and reenactment groups/people who have what are considered good reproduction equipment.

Looking at it again, I still think the helmet looks iffy. I personally wouldn't get it, but if you want to get it, go for it. If you want to modify it to coincide with the nit-picking we've offered, that's great. If you find a better/more affordable helmet, that's great too.

Don't worry too much about our nit-pickings. Granted, actual Roman equipment is of lesser quality (perhaps more in terms of consistency and "typical" details, seeing as they were made mass-production style, by hand) than what we're making today - Take our information/nit-picking as background information and as suggestions to modify the helmet to make it look better, and decide for yourself if it's a helmet you'd want to have.

Either way I'm happy to hear you're so interested in getting into Roman reenacting and history. Keep in mind that there is a lot we know about the Romans, but also a lot we don't know, or at least don't know for certain. In the end it's going to depend on your decsion on what things to get, and what you want to do with them...And how much you're willing to spend or make yourself. That's part of the hobby.

[Gordak]

LOL!

Yes I bought it,

Don’t worry, I’m understand a difference of opinions, and issues
After getting Bashed earlier for just saying I wanted to get a leather tent, I can pretty much handle anything.

Thanks for all the info from everyone I really appreciate it!

The small shots were taken with the fish eye lens of an internet video camera which messed with the proportions a bit. Ill take pictures when I get it in the mail. The main reason I liked it, was it only had 3 steps in the back, unlike the deepeeka’s which have the four, of which there are no known original examples. Polishing/sanding and a wee bit of hammering will do the rest.

Again I appreciate all the input I got! If we all agreed this place would be boring!
-Gordak

[Anonymous]

Hey, just thought I’d chime in (assuming it’s OK with Gallus 8) ). I agree with Neuraleanus that the pictures do not seem to show the same helmet. Keep in mind that the companies themselves are usually clearinghouses for one or more armorers, and frequently don’t seem to know or care about minor variations that drive us reenactors nuts. As pictured, I like the first helmet better, actually (I think Neuraleanus was a bit harsh in his "trash" judgement). First, it looks more hand-made, which I find cool. I think many of the so-called “problemsâ€ÂÂ

[Praefectusclassis]

The Roman Numismatic Gallery is certainly fine, but since we're on Romanarmy.com, I'd like to point members to our own equipment gallery as well :wink: , which is here. BTW, nice pics Severus!

[Comerus Gallus]

[delete]

[Gordak]

I payed $255 for it

I ll post pictures when i get it!

Thanks again guys!
-Gordak

PS. DOnt forget HBO ROME starts tonight!