SNAPPY SOLDIER TUNIC PLEAT

[John M McDermott]

Here is another picture of an attempt last night.
.
Someone brought up the question of an iron. Why not? Are there any Roman irons?

The sculptures show "extreme pleats". This may be artistic expression, or it may have relected the soldier at his best, all dressed up. In reality, the attempts I have made come up with something less than extreme pleats, but it is still a way to blouse up your tunic and achieve a dressier look.

Also, it breaths life into our image of Roman soldiers. They were consumate professionals who took immense pride in their appearance.

[mcbishop]

With all humility, Mr. Bishop, (seeing how the page I used came out of your book) could you post a picture of the cummerbund in action?

Humility unnecessary. Let's see if I can get this to work...



This is Annaius Daverzus. Red shading shows area of cummerbund. The rectangle is what Baatz interpreted as a container for writing tablets but is more likely to be a purse, I suspect (some tombstones even show the cord for suspending it). The clearest cummerbund is on the tombstone from Casacco published by Ubl, but this is still pretty good.

Mike Bishop

[Luca]

Interesting topic!

One of the things I have never understood is: it is just something to be cool or this has some practical aspects?

It could be that by leaving more side space for the leg, the soldier had more freedom in the movement avoiding the problem evident in this picture:

http://www.cisalpina.net/images/Sample2.jpg

As you can see the soldier here cannot step at the maximum he could, so his hit could be less effective.
Just one more thought to share with you.

[Luca]

The cummerbund could have also unother practical reason.
The balteus/cingulum is normally wider than the body because made to be put over the lorica. Could also be that not always there were available holes to fix the belt (putting holes means reduce space for plaques and the belt looks less cool).
So this item could be used to fill the gap.
Just a theory of mines...

[derek forrest]

David Richardson of the Augusta was suggesting that the cummerbund was also the focale and that our triangle shaped ones were wrong. Certainly the Cummerbund works well to take up belt slack.

[John M McDermott]

There's no question about it. A cummerbund would take up a lot of slack in the tunic.

Has anyone reproduced one?

[Caballo]

Great discussion!
On the Annaius cummerbund, there appears to be an oval brooch-like object with concentric oval rings...or are my eyes deceiving me?
Britannicus

[mcbishop]

Has anyone reproduced one?

Well the Bengal Lancers had a pretty good go:

[url:2sns45zr]http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyuniforms/indiancavalry/skinnersuniform.htm[/url]


Mike Bishop

[A_Volpe]

sorry...What is a Cummerbund?

[Caballo]

I believe it is called a waist sash in America- with the word cummerbund coming originally from India.

Britannicus

[John M McDermott]

It is used with tuxedos.

[mcbishop]

On the Annaius cummerbund, there appears to be an oval brooch-like object with concentric oval rings...or are my eyes deceiving me?

It appears to be tied or looped if you examine the sculpture close up, rather than just wrapped round. Again, the Casacco example is clearer.

Mike Bishop

[Crispvs]

Luca,

The problem the man in your photo has is caused by his tunic being cut too narrow. If the tunic is cut to what I would consider as a minimim width of elbow to elbow and is straight sided and parallel he will have plenty of room for movement, even in the most extreme positions.

John,

The effect I create with my tunic is very similar to yours but I still don't have the capacity to post pictures.
Most of the II Augusta wear cumberbunds as do many members of my own group, the XIIII GMV when not wearing armour.

Crispvs

[Robert Vermaat]

I believe it is called a waist sash in America- with the word cummerbund coming originally from India.
Britannicus

Ah, you mean like our II Herculiani friend Spadinos is wearing here:

[Tarbicus]

Nearly all of the tombstones that show this distinctive patterning have the cummerbund.

Peter de Haas, in Arma Vol.3 No.1 June 1991, wrote an article on his experimenting with the fascia ventralis, prompted by Dr. Hans Jorg Ubl's contribution to the 5th ROMEC.

He found that, after donning the sash and pinning it with a fibula, pulling the tunic down at the front caused the familiar pleats to appear naturally. The sash also kept these in place for much longer than a cord, and the tunic didn't ride up too high to cause embarrassment :oops:

Further advantages to it were it protected the wearer from bruising caused by the belts. Doubling the last turn created a handy 'pocket', 15cm deep, which could be used for storing items such as coins or even a knife, and a wax tablet could be held there without discomfort or the wax melting from body heat (if not a purse depicted, as suggested). He also observed that the sash protects the tunic from being ripped by the cingulum's protrusions at the back (a cheaper alternative to replacing the tunic), and it supports the small of the back from heavy belts and equipment (noting the use of belts by weightlifters and construction workers). A further possibility of using the sash for protecting the tunic could be letting the end fall down at the front to protect against wear from the cingulum's apron, I suppose.

I do like the idea of using fibulae to create and hold the pleats as well. Using both would keep the trooper looking fine and dandy all day I imagine.

The Arma edition, amongst others, is available for download as a PDF (hence I managed to get my hands on it) from Mike Bishop's page here, in case you hadn't already done so:
[url:3idaj9c9]http://www.mcbishop.co.uk/arma.htm[/url]

Cheers.