Rhomphaia

[Dan Diffendale]

That fine-looking Thracian is in fact our very own Dan Z...

[Brennus]

Would Rhomphaia be pronounced like "Rom-Fay" or "Rom-Faya"?

[hoplite14gr]

"Rom-Faya" is more usual and considered more correct in the "common Greek" of the Alexandrian Scholars (romfea with E link nEst)

kind regards

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Like "romfea" ("e" like "enemy") in greek.

[MeinPanzer]

Like "romfea" ("e" like "enemy") in greek.

In modern Greek, but in ancient Greek it would have been pronounced rom-feye-a.

[Brennus]

I wonder, did Peltasts ever equip the Rhomphaia, or was that generally used by a different type of foot soldier?

[MeinPanzer]

I wonder, did Peltasts ever equip the Rhomphaia, or was that generally used by a different type of foot soldier?

As far as I am aware, there is no rhomphaia which is dated earlier than the second half of the 4th c. BC, and the traditional peltast with the crescent pelte, fox-skin cap, zeira, and distinctive boots had disappeared by that point already. The Kazanluk and Alexandrovo wall paintings, which date to before or around the time of the first rhomphaias, show that Thracian soldiers then were largely hellenized as far as costume is concerned and carried oval, bronze-faced, rimless shields. Unfortunately, I've not been able to find a lot of published information on the contexts in which the dozen or so rhompaiai which have turned up were found, but the one example which came from a warrior's burial was found alongside a Phrygian helmet with a few javelinheads, IIRC.

[PMBardunias]

If you define Rhomphaia broadly to include any sickle or Drepanon, then the Carians and Lycians were known to use them:

[Herodotus 5.112.2] As for the two generals, Artybius rode against Onesilus who as he had agreed with his attendant, dealt Artybius a blow as he bore down upon him. When the horse struck his hooves on Onesilus' shield, the Carian shore away the horse's legs with a stroke of his curved sword (drepanon).

Such swords can be seen in art as well, see below:

[MeinPanzer]

If you define Rhomphaia broadly to include any sickle or Drepanon, then the Carians and Lycians were known to use them:

[Herodotus 5.112.2] As for the two generals, Artybius rode against Onesilus who as he had agreed with his attendant, dealt Artybius a blow as he bore down upon him. When the horse struck his hooves on Onesilus' shield, the Carian shore away the horse's legs with a stroke of his curved sword (drepanon).

Such swords can be seen in art as well, see below:

The definition of rhomphaia is pretty clear from several references, that it's straight and includes a blade about the same length as its grip. In other words, exactly the dozen or so examples found in the Rhodope mountains. Sicae are not rhomphaiai, nor are drepana or any other curved weapons.

[PMBardunias]

The definition of rhomphaia is pretty clear from several references, that it's straight and includes a blade about the same length as its grip.

To you and I yes, but perhaps not to Todd, or the odd lurker who may simply be looking for anything drepanon-ish in use. Also, its clear that they are not all straight.

[sitalkes]

I wonder, did Peltasts ever equip the Rhomphaia, or was that generally used by a different type of foot soldier?

As far as I am aware, there is no rhomphaia which is dated earlier than the second half of the 4th c. BC

There is now one exception: a rhomphaia in the Komotini Musuem in Greek Thrace, found on the Greek side of the Rhodopes Mountains (ie same tribal area as most of the others) - this one is dated to the early part of the 4th Century BC, putting it close to the 429BC date of the Thucydides' sword-equipped Dii (who came from the same area) and more speculation!! In an effort to get more information about it, I wrote to the director of the museum and sent him my book but got no answer. Nearly all the rhomphaias found come from in or near the Rhodopes Mountains - the furthest away being the one found near Kabyle . You can see that blade and its reconstruction here: [url:165vqgpn]http://www.flickr.com/photos/thracian/page4/[/url] This suggests that at least when used by the natives its use may have been restricted to the Bessi or its sub-clans. That doesn't prohibit its use by Thracian mercenaries furhter afield.

At the Battle of Rhaphia, the Thracian and Gallic infantry of the Ptolemaic army were deployed together, suggesting a similar mode of fighting - so by that stage you couldn't really call a non-skirmisher Thracian infantryman a peltast, but some sort of medium infantryman equpped with helmet, thureos, rhomphaia, sword, greaves, and javelin.

[Paralus]

At the Battle of Rhaphia, the Thracian and Gallic infantry of the Ptolemaic army were deployed together, suggesting a similar mode of fighting - so by that stage you couldn't really call a non-skirmisher Thracian infantryman a peltast, but some sort of medium infantryman equpped with helmet, thureos, rhomphaia, sword, greaves, and javelin.

I'm betting you're right. Then again I also thought So You Think...

I actually pictured them as used in conjunction with the cavalry column on the Ptolemaic right. A great anti-horse weaopn the romphaia.

[Paullus Scipio]

Paul B. wrote

Also, its clear that they are not all straight.

I'd bet those 'bent' ( note they are not 'curved') examples were originally straight, and have suffered 'damage' either by being 'sleighted' before burial or accidently in some way after.....

You probably wouldn't make a blade you meant hammer into a curve with a 'T' cross-section either......

[PMBardunias]

You probably wouldn't make a blade you meant hammer into a curve with a 'T' cross-section either......

I've seen Kyber knives with gentle curves such as this along the back of the "T" shaped blade, so I don't know that it is a limitation.

[Dan Z]

I admit the sample size is rather small, but I have always found it interesting that the rear grips on the straight rhomphaia are broken while the rear grips on the two bent (bent and definitely not, as Paullus already pointed out, curved) rhomphaia are not. I think the bend (which occurs at about the same point on each weapon and deflects the blade by what appears to be the same amount) relieves some of the stress on the rear grip while offering a slight improvement in performance. I thought I wrote up a post on this but I can't seem to find it now.

I have a attached the diagram I made for that old post to show the basic forces acting on a rhomphaia and target in a swing. The hand closest to the blade ends up acting like a fulcrum with the target on one end of the lever and the rear hand on the other end. I think the bend in the blade decreases the force on the rear grip (which lacks the I-beam cross-section of the main portion of the grip and has a pair of rivet holes in it making this one of the weak points in the design) enough to keep said grip from breaking. The bend also helps accelerate the target toward the tip of the weapon. The tips appear to lack the T-shape cross section of the rest of the blade making them more likely to break in a thrust, but making them more likely to slice through the target in a slash especially if my theory is correct and the bend adds to the target's acceleration along the blade and therefore to the force being applied. It would make for a nasty, deep slash wound and possibly take off a limb under the right circumstances.



Hopefully this makes sense?