Helmet linings

[Malleus]

I have a couple of questions about greek helmets. Are corinthian type helmets differentially thicker in the face area and thinner elsewhere? I see pictures of what appear to be quite thick nasals; but cannot tell if the metal is worked at the edge, or simply thick in that area.

I recently saw a photo of a corinthian helmet with a series of holes around the bottom rim, up the edge of the cheekpiece and along the bottom edge of the eye slot. On a medieval bascinet helmet these would be holes to sew the padded lining in. What form of lining does a corinthian helmet have, and are the cheek pieces normally padded also? Since I have not seen holes of this type before, would it be correct to believe that any linings are normally glued in?

[Dan Diffendale]

For your first question, yes, Corinthian helmets tend to be thicker in the nasal and the brows... you can see some examples on my site.

The holes on early Corinthians do seem to be for attaching a lining. They disappear in later helmets. A felt cap called a pilos was likely worn underneath.

[hoplite14gr]

Pilos is suppose to be the most widely accepted arming cup but it was not the only one.
On the Marathon tomb plaque (Archeology Museum Athens) the hoplite seems to were an arming cup like the one the Evzoni of the Guard are wearing.
Another plaque from the Oeryithea shrine (Sparta) shows two types of caps.
One "egyptian-like" and another one "rope-like" similar to the one that Angus Mc bright drew for the Concorde "Ancient Celts." Both plaques date from the Archaic era 800-700 B.C.
Classical Corinthian helmets were thicker arround the skull and thiner on the rest. An ancient cylix shows hoplites arming and depicts Corinthian helmets reinforced with probably cast iron scales arround the skull.
Kind regards
Stefanos

[Matthew Amt]

An ancient cylix shows hoplites arming and depicts Corinthian helmets reinforced with probably cast iron scales arround the skull.

Well, not "cast" since cast iron was pretty rare until the 17th century. And even regular forged iron scales on a Corinthian helmet seems unlikely, to me! I remember seeing at least one vase painting with what looked like a painted scale-like pattern--could that be what you're talking about? (It was showing the sack of Troy, and the exact same pattern was on Priam's stool...) I know the ancient Greeks went out of their way to do things the hard way, but iron scales on a bronze helmet? I dunno, I'd really want to see an archeological example or an original description.

Khaire,

Matthew

[hoplite14gr]

Since I am not a metal expert I will use the term iron only.
The painting you mention is one of these type of depictions.
The painting I refer is a 5th century "red-faced" cylix but the bugger that wrote the book does not mention his sources although I suspect German meuseums.
Most of the scales are painted black, hence I suspect iron because the "bronze" parts appear in the "standard" ceramic colour.
I agree that perhaps the depiction might show painted decoration or engraving similar to the Roman cavalry helmets emulating human hair.
But in the back of my mind I remenber the scale helmet reconstructions that the guys in the "Bronze age forum" did and I speculate-not too wildly I hope- that these Corinthian helmets might be leather with metal reinforcements. Just to mention a few "oddities" that the shovels brought to light. Excavations in Dion (mid-80s) showed a couple iron "peny-size" iron scales and an iron chick-piece that some claim it fits the hintzes of pilos helms. The scales might be for linothorax but still the image on the cylix gives me second thoughts. Worse, after they mentioned in the papers the exibits seem to be burried in the Thessalonica Museum!!
Searching the same damned book I found also a depiction of Odiseus - (Ulisses) and Diomides capturing Dolon who wears a "furry" or "wolly" cap that could be worn under the classical helmets.
Kind regards
Stefanos

[Malleus]

So the consensus is a removable padded cap for a lining. Would the cheekpieces be padded separately? It would seem to be hard on the face not to have padding here, or is that how Socrates got that 'broken-nose appearence?

[hoplite14gr]

Well the Oerethea plaques are quite damaged but the caps they show appear to to extend to the cheeks. Cyrenean hoplites and hoplites from the maritime cities might have aquired or copied leather or linen Egyptian caps with cheekpeaces and Pontic hoplites have definetly seen paflagonian or Skythian pilos with cheeks covered.
Hoplites were not only the Spartan!!!!!
Kind regards
Stefanos