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die for stamping beltplates
#16
Ah, now I understand why your friends thought they looked like nipples :lol: The raised centers I'm familiar with actually have a flat or slightly convex apex- removing any chance of them being made fun of :wink:

Cutting the sheet metal straight is indeed a skill sometimes must be learned- snipping along a marker line on sheet metal isn't nearly as easy as doing so with paper. I consider myself fairly adept at it and I still have to snip off little bits to straighten lines...

Matt
See FABRICA ROMANORVM Recreations in the Marketplace for custom helmets, armour, swords and more!
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#17
Hi,
going by the original question, if you are into fancier plates, this is how I did some for Erik Lechl: I mounted a piece of brass sheet metal on pitch, chased it using various punches and a chasing hammer. Soderd on a bottom made from that a rubberform and cast that in brass. The brassmodel I soderd onto a thick brass rod which was used as my stamping punch. After that it is taking sheet metal a bit largerer than your actual beltplate laying that on a lead slab, putting on your brass punch and stamping it with a sledgehammer. Usually one strike is enought to form the plates nicely. As sheet metal I was using 0,4mm brass sheet metal. The chasing bit takes some knowledge of goldsmithes techniques, but is otherweise not hard. Only that during the chasing you are working from the backside of the plate.

Martin
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#18
Salve,

What does a chasing hammer look like?

And how fine are the snips you guys use to cut thin brass sheet? Does anyone know where to find snips that are fine enough for the job?

Best regards,
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
www.LEGIOXI.be
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#19
Hi Jef,
hier is an example of how a chasing hammer looks like:
http://www.lacytools.ca/catalog/images/CHASINGH.JPG
thin brass sheet metal you can cut also with a pair of normal household scissors, as it is softer than steel sheet metal.

Hope that helps?

Martin
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#20
Well, make sure they are good scissors. The lightweight ones will spring at the joint, if you try to cut brass or other heavy stuff. Any that are sufficiently strong to cut belt leather should work fine.

I'd opt for the metal shears, though, and most likely either tin snips that look like big pelican beak scissors, or yellow metal snips (yellow is for straight cuts, the red and green are for right hand and left hand curves)
For about twenty bucks you can get a set of all three at a place like WalMart or Harbor Freight.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#21
I just use small 100g and 200g hammers myself, and they work just fine- so while a dedicated chasing hammer would be the ultimate tool, it's certainly not absolutely necessary. It's my understanding that a chasing hammer is specifically designed to minimize fatigue on the hand and wrist for those who work for long periods of time, as does the large head which requires less specific 'aiming'. So unless you plan to work for long hours, days on end, you'll be just fine using any small light hammer- especially if you work with quite thin metal and good chasing pitch.
See FABRICA ROMANORVM Recreations in the Marketplace for custom helmets, armour, swords and more!
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#22
Hi Matt,
well I have one from the times I did my goldsmiths apprenticeship, so there was no point for me buying another one. But when chasing faces you can be busy for a few hours. I would say it is personal preferance what you like to use.

Martin
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#23
Oh absolutely- if I had a real chasing hammer I'd use it and probably wouldn't want to use anything else, but for now even for working for 3 or 4 hours at a time, my $2 100g machinist's hammer works well Big Grin

Matt
See FABRICA ROMANORVM Recreations in the Marketplace for custom helmets, armour, swords and more!
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#24
Quote:Hi,
going by the original question, if you are into fancier plates, this is how I did some for Erik Lechl: I mounted a piece of brass sheet metal on pitch, chased it using various punches and a chasing hammer. Soderd on a bottom made from that a rubberform and cast that in brass. The brassmodel I soderd onto a thick brass rod which was used as my stamping punch. After that it is taking sheet metal a bit largerer than your actual beltplate laying that on a lead slab, putting on your brass punch and stamping it with a sledgehammer. Usually one strike is enought to form the plates nicely. As sheet metal I was using 0,4mm brass sheet metal. The chasing bit takes some knowledge of goldsmithes techniques, but is otherweise not hard. Only that during the chasing you are working from the backside of the plate.

Martin

There are a few things I do not get.
You soldered the finished plate on a bottom made from a rubberform and cast this into brass...
What do you mean by this?

And another question: I understand from your explanation that you do not use a negative die, you just place the brass sheet onto a lead slab. Do I understand this correctly?

Best regards,
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
www.LEGIOXI.be
Reply
#25
Hi Jef,
I sodder a bottom to the first chased piece. From this soddered together piece a rubber form or mold is made to cast a solid piece. Might be for some faster to carve the thing out of wax and do away with the chasing, I prefer doing it this way as I learned it from my master goldsmith. Yes I do not work with a negative form but using the cast piece as a punch to stamp the plates from the back side, and since lead is rather soft this will take on the shape of the plate. So it is only a matter of hitting the punch hard enough so that the plate is formed which at 0,3mm and softend brass sheet metal shouldn´t be a problem. With this method I made several dozen plates with Erich König from
Aurificina. Might be not the way most make the plates, but compared to the wax craved ones that depending on how good the person is at it, I find the chased version comes closer to the originals by looks. But that is my personal opinion.


Martin
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#26
Hello again Martin,

How exactly does one make such a rubber mold? Doesn't it melt if you put hot brass in it? Or am I missing something?

Best regards
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
www.LEGIOXI.be
Reply
#27
Hi Jeff
hmm o.k. this is a special kind of rubber where your orignial part is placed in between. On the original or model there is added a short piece of wire, to form the channel in which later on wax is injected.The rubber is vulcanised at about 120°c and 6bar presure.
After that your form is opened, your original or model taken out.
Special casting wax is under presire injected in the rubber form. The so created wax pieces are then sodderd onto a thick wax stem which is mounted to a plate. your wax pieces and stem are then covered with a special steel flask used for casting. This flask is then filled with plaster, this has to be bubble free. After the plaster has hardend you remove the plat holding your wax stem. Your plater filled flasks are then put in an oven and slowly heated up to the temperature need for brass, during the heating your wax melts leaving cavities behind where your metal will later on be filled into.
When you have reached your temperature you cast your metal remove
what is left of the plaster, and sodder your cast piece onto a sturdy brass rod which then acts as your punch.
I know this is a lot of specialist stuff that goldsmiths use, not what most would have at home. But if you are into making series of stuff this is a rather fast way, even though for a single piece maybe on the whole a longer way of doing something. Most who are into making replicas like Erik, Markus Neidhart or Holger Ratsdorf all use this method. Haven´t heard of anyone unhappy with the results! Smile

Hope this gives you a better idea?

Martin
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#28
Yes I think I get it now. doesn't sound like something one could do in a hurry at home Sad

You don't know of anyone making and selling such stamps do you? :?

Thanks for the information!

Best regards,
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
www.LEGIOXI.be
Reply
#29
Well those mentioned people make such stamps, but since they make replicas for a living I doubt they will be willing to sell them, but only the finished beltplates. I could make such stamps, but that would take a long time as I don´t have a workshop at the moment, but in time I intend to again.

Martin
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