Tin Belt & Baldric Fittings

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

I am wondering if the Romans with their knowledge of tin, ever made belt and baldric fittings from pure cast tin, as opposed to tinning an object made of some other metal. Have any solid tin such items ever been found?

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Tin is very soft to use to make those fittings, and probably more heavy. So romans prefer to use copper alloys, easy to make, and then they silvered or tined to make more beauty and avoid corrosion.

And probably bronze was cheapier than copper alloy.

[Matthew Amt]

Avete!

From what I've seen, they really don't seem to have used straight tin or pewter very much at all, even for domestic items. It sure would be handy if they had!

Bronze *is* a copper alloy--did you misstype something, Lucius Metellus? Military items in the Empire tend to be brass (copper/zinc) rather than bronze (copper/tin), but some are a mix, and some have some lead as well. Domestic copper alloy items apparently were still bronze, though, with or without lead.

Valete,

Matthew/Quintus

[Matt Lukes]

Can you reference your statement that Imperial military items were made of brass and not bronze Matt? I'd be really very interested to see what sorts of metallurgical analyses have been done even if only the consituent metals of various objects have been determined.

There's a bit of a discussion going on in the thread about the completely accurate scutum in the re-enactment section, where some are saying that brass and not bronze is appropriate for the rim because brass is the alloy with the greater possibility of variable content- the opposite to what I understand. At present 'brass' is the term used for ONLY copper-zinc alloy (sometimes with a very small amount of lead or tin added to alter machinability), but 'bronze' is virtually any other copper alloy providing zinc is not the secondmost percentage element. So if the percentages from highest to lowest read copper, zinc,... it's brass, and if they read copper, anything but zinc, it's bronze.

Obviously no modern alloy will equate the ancient ones, but I'm very interested in getting something as close as possible, so if your source that claims brass was the predominant metal actually proves that, I'd be very interested to see the numbers.

Vale

Matt

[Quintius Clavus]

I am looking at my copy of "Roman Military Equipment" by Bishop & Coulston, 1993 edition. At the end of the book, there is a chapter on Production and Technology. This chapter includes a subsection on Copper alloys.

They mention that when Augustus reformed the Roman coinage, he introduced "orichalcum" for the sestertius, dupondus and semis. It is an alloy of copper and zinc, much closer to "gilding metal" than to modern brass. The metal was used by the army for most of its copper alloy objects in the early principate. Includes: helmets, copper alloy fittings on the lorica segmentata, etc. Only the patera seems to have been made of what we think of as bronze-copper/tin.

Now, I am not sure what more recent scholarship will show, I am reasonably certain that production and technology will likely be revisited in the new edition. (By the way, I have to let Oxbow/David Brown Books know that I have moved - I preordered a while back for the new edition in the works).

Bishop and Coulston also mention that "orichalcum" was still being used for helmets in the third century as it could be worked into the complex shapes, being softer than bronze. If you have the book, or can get it, you can read the chapter yourself.

Marcus Quintius Clavus/Quinton

[Matt Lukes]

That's great Clavus, thanks for the referece- I'll definitely check it out.

Vale

Matt

[Matthew Amt]

There are some metallurgical analyses in various articles in JRMES and the old ROMEC proceedings. It'll take a little digging, but I've written a note to myself to see what I can find tonight. Bottom line, though, yes, most military copper-alloy stuff is BRASS, copper and zinc, though the percentage of zinc is lower than in modern yellow brass (which is 30 percent zinc). It may be safer to call it "orichalcum" like the Romans did, though with all the varying metal content and different terms flying around you can see why the cautious folks just say "copper alloy"!

Valete,

Matthew

[Daniel S Peterson]

Though I do not know of any solid pewter Roman belt or baldric fittings, solid silver ones have been found, and such belts may have been quite common, for it was a means of soldiers to easily carry their "wealth". It is mentioned in Tacitus that the German legions who supported Vittelius in his bid for the purple, contributed their silver belts to help finance the cause.

Though such pieces are rare as finds, this may be because of their silver content, they would never be discarded in a refuse pile, like much Roman military equipment bits. Examples are only chance finds probably 'lost' by the soldier who owned them. I believe the very fancy belt plates in Naples, as used in my impression, may be solid silver.

Dan