Roman Helmet ? And a Victoria ?

[raeticus]

Dear Forum,

Look at those bargains :wink: :

What is this Roman helmet !?

[url:13hsbdim]http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7329208989&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1[/url]

and don't you love this "Victoria" cheek piece hock:
[url:13hsbdim]http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6538803512&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1[/url]

[surodago]

I would guess the cheek piece is at least 50 % plastic including the "Victoria" glued on, with "maybe" parts of the the upper border and the lower area real ?

No idea what that helmet is...any ideas ?

[Neuraleanus]

I think that the dating is all wrong. The helmet looks very Greek or Macedonian to me. Connolly, in his book, "Greece and Rome at War", has pictures of similar Greek helmets. BC, not AD. The cheek piece, again if genuine, does appear to be roman.

[surodago]

True, there is ressemblance of a BC greek helmet , but weren't those of bronze ?

[Paullus]

That looks surprisingly similar to a late Chalcidian helmet, but since it lacks a nasal it would be an Attic-type. Plus the inverted v on the forehead is a typical Hellenistic Attic feature. But IIRC Attics were made of one piece, not joined together like a Ridge or Intercisa.

Sure is elegant though

[surodago]

some poor soul paid 1010 euros for the plastified cheek piece !? And that helmet is at 1700 Euros.... :?

[FlaviusCrispus]

Avete, amici!

I had the opportunity to examine the weird vaguely Greco-Roman style helmet at the Long Beach coin show. It's clearly a 19th or 20th century forgery, or perhaps a theatrical helmet that was left out in the rain to rust.

I'll agree the fragmentary cheek piece may be all or part real, but the lil' figure of Victory was perhaps found separately a glued on.

[Antonius Lucretius]

This is a pair of fakes, and not even good ones, IMHO...
EBay IS dangerous for the poorly informed.. But the problem ius that there's a sucker born every minute... :roll:

[Tiberius Claudius Vindex]

Does this one look good or is it a fake as well?

[url:1zfn2fh2]http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6541093679&category=28211#ebayphotohosting[/url]

[Caius Fabius]

I personally feel if the people running the auction can't get the bid up enough that the seller can pay their fees, then they aren't worth doing business with. I have bought and sold enough stuff at auction over the past 30 years, that I won't even consider a "premium" (aka a commission charged to the buyer) of any more than 10% in addition to the actual "hammer price" even if I want the item. The 20% premium shows me that the auction house doesn't expect to get the seller a price close to what the seller thinks the piece is worth, so they try and screw their fees from the buyer in addition to the actual costs. On Ebay????? Give me a break, the costs to the auctioneer on Ebay are not going to be 20%, so they are totally playing a game with your money, adding additional charges so they can drive their BMW or HUMMER home from work.

Yeah, yeah, professional auction houses will cry about their overhead and such, especially if their gallery is in the high rent district, again, not a consideration if I am buying on ebay! It is a totally different medium, but some people haven't figured that out.

The seller states "Provenance: Estate of Jonathan Paul Cobb, San Francisco, CA". You would need to do research to find if that piece is an actual artifact, don't rely on opinions on the internet. You might be asking the person who is selling the item, and not even know it! Sure, he or she would advise you to buy this wonderful item. LOL! When my collection goes on sale, I have clearly marked the replicas and questionable items, but I won't be around to make sure that the auctioneer doesn't get stuff mixed up! The buyer must always do his or her own research and hire professional researchers if he or she wants to get involved in this business. I can show you several dealers on ebay who have loads of positive feedback, and promise to refund your money of you can PROVE they are selling you a fake, but I also have lists and photos of the fake and questionable items they have sold, whether they know it or not.

If you want an actual collection of items, you will have to become very knowledgeable or hire someone who is in the field and is bonded and professionally certified.

[caiusbeerquitius]

This is definitely not an original. The Patina does not look old and "grown", the figures do not fit into the ancient Kanon, the shoulder pieces are not "right"... etc...

[Antonius Lucretius]

Does this one look good or is it a fake as well?

The price screams out for a fake. An authentic bronze cuirass would be in the $ 20 000/$ 50 000 category... At least...