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Anybody knows this quote?
#1
Recently I found a very interesting quote from a letter of a
roman soldier-engineer writing to his family. He retells how he had
to help civilians to construct an aqueduct. He comments it with
words:

"If you want to have the work done well, commission it o the
army!"


Sweet quote isn't it? Further he depicts how the civilians' problems rose when they had to lead a tunnel through a hill (mountain). Digging was started from both sides. "I measured both snouts " wrote the soldier "and
when added, the length was greater than width of whole hill!"

Unfortunately the quote I found, was in Polish and was translated at least four times and printed in a popular-science book for young readers "The History of the Roman Army". There was no footnote describing details like, where was it published or where was this letter found. An author of the book, Peter Connoly, is known to be a reliable scholar so I don't expect him to have fabricated it. I have searched the Fink's "Roman Military records on papyrus" and an internet release of the Vindolanda tablets. I have asked all Warsaw scholars where to find out where this quote comes
from or who could know anything about it. My professor has humorously answered "Actually I should know... But unfortunately I don't. My attempt to establish contact with Peter Connoly failed.

I would like to use that first part of the quote in the beginning of my thesis but I cannot do this without a reference to the first publication of the letter. Thank you in advance.

Przemyslaw Ciborowski
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#2
I'm pretty sure the situation you're describing is in CIL 08, 2728 = CIL 8, 18122 = ILS5795 = AE 1941, 117 = AE 1942/43, 93 = AE 1996, 1802 = AE 1999, 80, the best hint: "quot per/foratio operis cunicu/li longior erat effect(a) / quam montis spatium" It's also published in Campbell, The Roman Army 31BC-AD337. A Sourcebook. I'm sorry to say that that quote doesn't seem to be in that line. Are you sure it's not the author commenting on the letter?[/url][/i]
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster & Editor, Ancient Warfare magazine
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#3
Thank you for quick reply.

As far as the quote is concerned I copied and translated all parts of the quote very carefully. Quotation marks are in the same place as the are in Connoly's book. I'm going to check the reference anyway but if any others ideas come to your mind please let me know.

Once again thanks a lot!

Best regards

Przemyslaw Ciborowski
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#4
Salue!

I have read that inscription but it is definitely not the one I'm hunting for. Situation seems to be similar but some details are different. Like no working civilians are mentioned. It is not said who is an author of the letter (in Connolly's version it's a roman soldier. But the whole situation is striking similar. I'm starting to think that Connolly colorized whole situation counting that young readers will not be able to check him. Pity. Anyway if anybody has any other idea where the quote "If you want to have the job done well, commission it to the army" comes from please let me know.

Vale

P.C.
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#5
No working civilians are mentioned, but it is implied by the fact that he was called in later. And I'd say that the whole snout measuring scene, which is in that inscription, is the best indication that this is the inscription we're talking about. It's a well known one and why would C. choose another one?
You could be right on the adaptation by C., quite possible.
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster & Editor, Ancient Warfare magazine
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#6
Witam!

As I mentioned before I tried to establish contact with P. Connolly. Today I received a very kind reply-letter from him. Although I'm grateful for his reply, his answer unfortunately is not exactly what I expected. I hope I am not rude to quote that letter. That's the whole part concerning the quote:

"[...] With reference to your query: I am afraid that the book you refer to was very harshly edited. In fact the quotation comes from an inscription not a letter. I think the aqueduct referred to is in Turkey."

Now I don't know what to think about that. He didn't give any other clues how to find that inscription. No inscription number, no article, no other scientific reference. Just "I think [...] Turkey". I would ask him but first of all the exchange of letters takes too much time (P.Connolly doesn't use an email), and I'm about to finish my thesis. Second I presume he could forgot details concerning that inscription. If he remembered he would them, wouldn't he?

I think I'm going to give up hunting for that quotation. But if any of you have new ideas please let me know. Special thanks and greetings for Jasper Oorthuys!

Przemek Ciborowski
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#7
Dear Przemek,

sounds like a bit of a bugger to me - but you could try and look it up on

http://user.uni-frankfurt.de/~clauss/index-e.html

its a database of all inscriptions in the standard volumes - unfortunately in German. I'd try and search for provinces in modern Turkey, combined with mil, or exerc or anything you might believe to be in the original Latin text!

Of course, this could take a while - but it would take way longer to search through CIL etc, and if it is your thesis...:wink:

Hope this helps!
Christoph [/url]
Christoph Rummel
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#8
Jasper seems to have the correct reference. CIL VIII 2728.

I came across a summary of it in the boook, Engineering In The Ancient World, J.G. Landels, London, 1978. Page 52-53. He gives a summary and a partial english "quote".He mentions the author as a certain Nonius Datus, a retired army surveyor (librator). The stone was set up in152 A.D. after Nonius had rescued a "civil engineering" project. The locals had been digging a tunnel through a hill from both sides and missed each other. This was in Saldae (modern Bougie? in Algeria) 200km east of Algiers.

Kevin
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