Speaking of felt..

[richsc]

I finally looked up how felt is made and it seems remarkably low tech
[url:g0ysb8gx]http://www.allfiberarts.com/library/felt/blfelt.htm[/url]

Anyone tried making a tunic in their bath tub?

[Marcus Mummius]

You don't need a lot of tools for it, this is true, but it is very difficult to make something more complicated than a ball of felt

[richsc]

I was thinking more of mass production, with slave labor, and the reuse of the scraps, for the army or anyone else for that matter. The Romans were experienced fullers set up for full size pieces of cloth, and this is an adjunct to that process.
This sort of production is a lot less skilled than setting up warp weighted looms, spinning with drop spindles, and making in general woven fabric.

Can wool felt that is in pieces be reused? I can see that happening among the troops; turning in the used felt and getting it replaced. Helps explain why fabric samples are so hard to come by.

[Marcus Mummius]

Aha I see what you mean

I've talked to a lady who makes (mostly medieval) felt stuff (gloves, cloaks, hats,...). Felt was a poor man material. It has some advantages over woven fabric but also a lot of disadvantages.

I am pretty sure it is impossible to re-use scraps of felt. The microscopic hooks on the hairs hook into each other during the felting proces and it would be (almost) impossible to undo this I think...

Vale

[Lepidina]

All you need to make felt is temperature change and agitation. Woven, knitted, crocheted, naalbound, etc. items can also be felted. There were laws in later periods about the manufacture of felted items. While the Romans didn't have kniting or crocheting, they probably felted woven and naalbound items as well.

I've never tried to reuse felt. I'm sure you can sew it together and you might be able to use it as patches. I'll have to check into that.

deb

[Matthew Amt]

Well, since there are numerous woven garments and fragments that survive, as well as descriptions of weaving and actual requisitions for woven tunics, I don't think it's safe to suggest that clothing might have been made from felt. BEWARE--Woven wool can be "FELTED", but this is NOT the same as making "FELT"!! Watch the terminology, it's tricky!

My take is that woven fabric is much stronger than felt, and you can make it much thinner. Actual felt is probably great for helmet linings and padding, stuff like that. Caps and hats, too. I know it was used by some cultures for tents, coats, etc., but the Romans don't seem to have gone for it so heavily. If so, more would survive--it's the same fibers as in the woven stuff, after all.

Oh, Hi, Richard--didn't see your name at first!

Valete,

Matthew/Quintus

[Lepidina]

Woven wool can be "FELTED", but this is NOT the same as making "FELT"!! Watch the terminology, it's tricky!

True. It depends on which fiber people you talk to. Felting technically occurs when the fibers of the wool cannot be separated from each other. Fulling is just making them bind together better. Some people will say that felt is only made from raw fiber (not spun fiber). Others will say that you can felt something woven/knitted/crocheted/etc. if you full it enough.

Matt or anyone, military coats from many eras like Rev War, War of 1812, etc. were made of a boiled wool which is a knit fabric that's been fulled to death into a felt type cloth. Granted the Romans didn't have knitting but you can make similar cloth from woven fabric. Did the Romans use that? I'm thinking your cloak and socks are made from it but I could be mistaken.

deb

[caiusbeerquitius]

The findings of cloaks published by Schlabow were all NOt felted. Similarly the socks which are in an other recent thread. It is quite propable, that the Romans did not know or use this technique. The only felt Item I know of so far is the arming cap from Dura, but then, James must not be right in this point. The felting techniques are quite old, but they were used afaik only in the far east and north of it. As we see with the ploughs in the early middle ages, it can take in ancient times extremely long for new techniques to move around.

[Matthew Amt]

Matt or anyone, military coats from many eras like Rev War, War of 1812, etc. were made of a boiled wool which is a knit fabric that's been fulled to death into a felt type cloth.

Knit?? News to me! I always understood it to be a regular woven broadcloth. I don't know about the boiling, but what 18th century clothing I've seen was not knitted. Is this new research? I've been out of the Rev War loop for quite some time... Stockings were often knit, but some were just cut and sewn from fabric.

Granted the Romans didn't have knitting but you can make similar cloth from woven fabric. Did the Romans use that? I'm thinking your cloak and socks are made from it but I could be mistaken.

I understood the cloak to be spun and woven "in the grease", with the natural lanolin helping to waterproof the fabric. Don't have a reference for that at my fingertips, though! Wouldn't fulling tend to remove the lanolin? You could make socks out of last month's tunic, nothing really special needed.

Valete,

Matthew

[santell]

Then the felt subarmalis that folks are busy making are not historically correct? Should the be heavy wool that will naturally mat from normal wear?

[caiusbeerquitius]

To stay on the safe side I would make the subarmalia from linen and fill it with either horse hair or hemp cord or such.