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Roman Names- Help!
#1
Avete omnes!

Okay, I've read the excellent sections on Roman names on the LEGIOXX and other websites, but I'm still not 100% sure of how a Roman with three names would be known or addressed; if I understand correctly, the Praenomen (Gaius, Quintus, etc.) was not really used alone for address, however Praenomen and Nomen could be. The Cognomen is the most unique to the individual and could be used alone. So, for example, I could address my friend Gaius Octavius Drusus as either 'Gaius Octavius' or simply 'Drusus'- is that correct?

I ask mainly because there seem to be a lot of people who do use the first name alone as an address, but if I have it right above, that's incorrect, yes? The other reason I'm not entirely clear is that people like one of our favorite historians Flavius Vegitus Renatus is commonly referred to by his Nomen- Vegitus; and then there's Pliny- Gaius Plinius Secundus- again known by his Nomen. Now I suspect that these two examples could well be simply the way historians and translators chose to identify these men and that they might not have been known in their times as Vegitus and Plinius, respectively.

One other thing- what's with the free substitution of 'G' and 'C' for one another in names like Gaius? The original Latin alphabet had both a 'C' and a 'G', so it's not a case like it is with 'I' and our 'J'. So why does one sometimes see the name 'Gaius' and sometimes 'Caius'?

Magna gratis.

Valete

Matt
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#2
Quote:One other thing- what's with the free substitution of 'G' and 'C' for one another in names like Gaius? The original Latin alphabet had both a 'C' and a 'G', so it's not a case like it is with 'I' and our 'J'. So why does one sometimes see the name 'Gaius' and sometimes 'Caius'?

Hi Matt,

To my knowledge the abreviation of Gaius is C.,
for example: Gaius Julius Caesar=C. Julius Caesar. The other questions I can not answer with 100% confidence.

Best regards
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
www.LEGIOXI.be
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#3
Praenomen use was reserved usually for +immediate family, often modified with additional endings, showing affection or such
Friends usually used cognomen,
Official titles include the Praenomen Nomen often prefaced by official positions titles or words of respect
An official cognomen can become almost a second nomen, Marcus Tullius was known by his family cognomen, in his official titles (Cicero).

Naming practises and usal vary with time and place, and funeral listings or official documents may have used only a shorthand for common names.
Caius Fabius Maior
Charles Foxtrot
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#4
don't forget to use the vocative ending for direct address, for example, TITE as a direct address by a close friend to someone with praenomen titus, there are a few times when you use the nominative, but I will not bore you with this lecture.
to answer your questions, it would depend on who was addressing them, and in what situation, officially the full name might be used, for family the praenomen, there are even nicknames attested to.
aka., John Shook
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#5
Okay, so:

Praenomen- family address- although I do wonder how confusion wasn't commonplace if a father and son are in the same room and a family member wanders in and calls to 'Gaius'- I'd think there would have been a lot of 'no, the other Gaius' :lol:

Nomen- not used by itself for obvious reasons, but in conjunction with the Praenomen and an official title such as 'Senator', would be used as a formal address

Cognomen- familiar address by friends.

Makes sense- that's only slightly different from what I'd understood from the explanations on the various websites.

And thanks for pointing out the vocative ending Ambiorix (proper friendly address?)- I've never studied Latin so the oft quoted "Et tu Brute?" last words of Caesar never made complete sense to me; so I presume that Brutus was his Cognomen as he and Caesar were longtime friends?

Vale

Matt
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#6
of course, in a family it would depend on who was talking to or about whom. The children would have diminutive names, or endings or nicknames, father would be called Pater, grandfathers and grandmothers would be called nicknames by their younger grand children, and father or mother by their children, mothers would probably always call the children by their diminutive name, except in public after they had become recognized adults. Cognomens such as younger, elder, fat, sleepy, and many others would be used, as happens today in most family gatherings. Even "junior" was a possible cognomen, in some cases!

Your friends and messmates would usually NOT use your praenomen, but instead a nickname cognomen, which might change as you continue to do things that people can use against you Big Grin . I just hope you get a cognomen you can live with, "the wine drinker" is probably better than "stinky" or "pig kisser".
Caius Fabius Maior
Charles Foxtrot
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#7
Ah, okay- so there never would be a situation of 'no the other Gaius' because, of course, because father and son weren't equals.

Gratis!

Matt
See FABRICA ROMANORVM Recreations in the Marketplace for custom helmets, armour, swords and more!
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#8
since the family may have used the same name for several children or forms of the same name, you could possibly have grandfather Julius, father Julius, father's sister Julia, father's son Julius, his daughter Julia, another daughter Jullilia, another son Julius the younger or minor, and all with the same nomen, (different endings by gender), so again, if mom is calling "YULI !!!" several (male) people might come running! Some family freedmen might also have the same praenomen...... and some praenomen, of the 17 used normally (14 most often) , might also be used by the neighbors, especially if they were related......

No wonder young men joined the army, to get away from the rule of Paterfamilius and to make their own name, literally.

Confusedhock: :lol: :roll:
Caius Fabius Maior
Charles Foxtrot
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#9
Quote:Your friends and messmates would usually NOT use your praenomen, but instead a nickname cognomen, which might change as you continue to do things that people can use against you Big Grin . I just hope you get a cognomen you can live with, "the wine drinker" is probably better than "stinky" or "pig kisser".
[size=150:1puet3pp]S[/size]o I guess I am stuck w/ "Bronchii Yogi" ;-Þ My tentmates seemed to find my nightly "operettas" offensive?!
DMV
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#10
If you really want to spread confusion and get peoples' anger up, try to figure out female names. Marcus Tullius Cicero, for instance, refers to his one daughter as Tullia, the diminutive of his own name. If you had a second daughter? Well how about Secunda, i.e. the Second (female) one.

I do believe the nickname mentioned above could be called the agnomen.
Kevin Aschenmeier
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