Late roman spatha\'s with stripe pattern

[Sassanid]

The Koln sptha has a lenticular cross section. I have this picture of a reconstruction. On the original the guard, grip and pommel were made of ivory, not wood. The blade proportions look good though. I must stress in style IMHO, the Koln owed more to 3rd century, than the 4th or 5th.



Andrew

[Marcus Mummius]

I've found a website with a lot of pictures of swords on it, also hilts, pommels,... I'm sure some of them are 4th-5th century but which...?

Does some recognises any 4th and 5th century spathae and pommels, grips?

http://membres.lycos.fr/bronzeage/sejre ... index.html

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

I think there are the Nydam Bog ones. Beautigul pics!

[Robert Vermaat]

Nydam, Kragehul, Vimose - the lot! beautiful!!

best go to his home page ([url:31jyz4no]http://membres.lycos.fr/bronzeage/[/url]), you'll find many more links to this collection!

[Sassanid]

One in the iron age section looks pretty like the Sutton Hoo sword.

Iron Age artifacts (circa 500BC-800AD).

Marcus

There is a pair of Germaic styled spathae near the end in the same section. Could be as late as 6th/7th century though rather than 4th/5th. What kind of unit did you wish to portray?

There are also quite a few options for you in the temporary exhibition section. Again though the look is very Germanic. Loved the pugios. (what is the plural?) And the sword shown before the pugios certainly looks traditional Roman.

Temporary exhibition: Sejrens Triumph
(stone age to late Roman Iron age)

Well found indeed.

Andrew

[Marcus Mummius]

Hi Andrew,

The plural of 'pugio' is 'pugiones'.

The unit we would like to portray is 'Marcomanni Seniores'. I guess some Germanic elements aren't too bad for this unit?

Which blades do you mean exactly? There are so many

Valete

[Sassanid]

Hi Marcus,

http://membres.lycos.fr/bronzeage/sejre ... 190051.jpg

http://membres.lycos.fr/bronzeage/sejre ... 190049.jpg

I reckon these two are 4th/5th century. Aitor or Robert can you back me up? They would be acceptable for a late Roman unit with a Germanic influence?

Roman style, 3rd Century. I have seen these before in my books:

http://membres.lycos.fr/bronzeage/sejre ... 190074.jpg

http://membres.lycos.fr/bronzeage/sejre ... 190075.jpg

http://membres.lycos.fr/bronzeage/sejre ... 190076.jpg

http://membres.lycos.fr/bronzeage/sejre ... 190037.jpg

This style I think is late 6th early 7th century and therfore no use to you.

http://membres.lycos.fr/bronzeage/iron_age/07180124.jpg

Hope this is some help

Andrew

[Sassanid]

A couple of quick questions

How do get so tight a mail suit over the head? Is there something at the back?

http://membres.lycos.fr/bronzeage/sejre ... 190048.jpg

And what are these V shaped things? They are a number shown in the exhibition. Both in iron and wood

http://membres.lycos.fr/bronzeage/sejre ... 190030.jpg

http://membres.lycos.fr/bronzeage/sejre ... 190055.jpg

Andrew

[Marcus Mummius]

those V shaped things are very curious indeed

perhaps something from a rowingboat to rest your oars in?
Or a catapult? :lol:
Or a hayfork? 8)

Don't know really...

Andrew, those two swords look great indeed, a pity I don't know the dimensions for them. What kind of cross section do they have in your opinion? Lenticular? Diamond? Or something else?

Thanks very much,
Valete,
Jef

[Robert Vermaat]

Looks like a regular Roman spatha to me:

[Robert Vermaat]

Andrew,
I don't know, but they could well be just that. Most of the Vimose swords are 3rd to 4th century?
Those V-shaped things indeed look like the whatshallIcallums from a rowing boat.
The Vimose mail coat may be only that tight around the neck because that's how the museum people displayed it?

[Sassanid]

Marcus,

Looks lenticular to me.

Robert,

Thanks for the info on the whatshallIcallums. You could well be right. :lol:

On the regular Roman spatha. The shape I agree is regular Roman, I just have never seen or even heard of a metallic grip assembly before on a Roman sword (Mind you my knowledge on late Roman swords is hardly comprehensive). It looks like some sort of cupric alloy to me?

Andrew

[Marcus Mummius]

Hi Andrew. I don't know about metalic grips. Something else about grips. Holger Ratsdorf told me bone grips, were very rare on late roman spathae. The most common was a grip out of leather, twisted around the tang. Is this indeed the case?

Valete,
Marcus

[Sassanid]

Hi Marcus

That is news to me, but as I mentioned in a previous post I don't really not know that much about late Roman swords, particularly going into the 5th century.

I am pretty sure though these swords are 4th or 5th century and the style would be okay for you.

http://membres.lycos.fr/bronzeage/sejre ... 190051.jpg

http://membres.lycos.fr/bronzeage/sejre ... 190049.jpg

Maybe you could mail the images to Holger and ask his opinion?

Andrew

Note

I have just discovered the above swords have a metallic grip assembly. I guess that confirms metallic grips. Can anyone recommend a good book on late Roman swords?

Thanks, Andrew

[Dan Diffendale]

FYI, the whatchamacallits for oars are called "oarlocks" or "rowlocks"... A simple peg without the V is a "tholepin," Latin scalmus (from Gk. skalmos).