Late roman spatha\'s with stripe pattern

[Antonius Lucretius]

Ahem....
A very serious competitor for Ratsdorf...
This guy is a master.

[url:3h7bktof]http://www.templ.net/who_is_patrick_barta.php[/url]

[Marcus Mummius]

His prices also look better then Ratsdorf's.

[Sassanid]

I personally only know of two craftsmen in Europe who could make a true Roman type pattern welded blade.

Patrick Barta was the other I know of, after Hector Cole. Patrick though has one serious flaw - his waiting list. Last time I heard it was 2 years.

If you really want a pattern welded sword (or any other for that matter), it will be much cheaper to go direct to Hector, rather than through Holger. The finish on the grip may not be so fine, but it will be perfectly historically accurate.

http://www.hectorcoleironwork.com/index.html

Andrew

[Marcus Mummius]

Mark Morrow appears to be making them too. His prices are much more reasonable than these two. Has someone ever got a damast sword from Mark?

Valete

[Sassanid]

Thank you Marcus,

That is very interesting. The only thing about buying from the States is the duty you must pay - usually about 20%. A positive is the £/$ exchange is very good currently, as the dollar is weak. I presume that is also the case against the Euro?

Time to make some enquiries...

The new Albion swords are also worth a look. I think they are produced using stock removal, but the quality is very good, and blades are polished leaving a finish that looks historically correct. My main concern is that in the past they have given the swords a too extreme distal taper to get the point of balance close the the hilt. With Roman swords there is no heavy pommel to balance them, and so I think the longer ones probably were point heavy.

Andrew

[Marcus Mummius]

Hi Andrew,

I've put a knife-blade into a glas of coca cola. I had melted some candlewax (couldn't find beeswax fast enough) on it and had drawn some lines in it with a needle. I let it soak for about 4 hours. After I removed the beeswax some very faint dark lines could be seen on the blade! It didn't soak long enough but it most certainly works

Best regards

[Sassanid]

Marcus,

Excellent stuff. The big question though - does it clean off, or is it a permanent mark? I imagine it will be.

I got in contact with Mark Morrow. He says he charges from $30 per inch for a pattern welded blade, and he can add fullers. That means, the blade I want, a Lauriacum/Hromowka type with twin fullers, 24" long should cost around $720. The grip would be extra. That is significantly cheaper than we can currently get in Europe, even with import tax, postage, and a bit extra for the particular pattern I want.

His price ratio is about right, his standard blades are about $11 an inch. According to David Sim (author "Iron for the Eagles"), a pattern welded blade would usually take about 3 times as long to construct - about 110 hours per blade.

Andrew

[Marcus Mummius]

Héhé, so your dreamsword has almost become reality then

Do you think that a late roman spatha with the following dimensions is good: 25" blade (32" incuding tang), about 2" width at the cross and a bit less at the point. Also about the shape, was fullering more common or is some kind of pompei-gladius shape better?

Best regards,
Marcus Memmius

[Sassanid]

Marcus,

There was always variation and cross over, but in the 3rd century there were two basic types of spatha. I should at this point also say there were still short swords as well, the so called semi-spathae - but they are for another day... Back to the spatha, to quote B&C- firstly the long narrow Straubing/Nydam type blade, and secondly the shorter wider Lauriacum/Hromowka type.

Long thin was 650mm-800mm, with a 44mm maximum width. It slightly tapered and had a fairly small tip. Shorter wider was 557mm-655mm with a maximum width of 62-75mm. They had parallel sides and a triangular point. Tangs for both were rectangular, but the blade cross section tended to be more lenticular (particularly for the Lauriacum/Hromowka type), than 1st and 2nd Century types, which generally had a diamond cross-section. Fullers are more common with Lauriacum/Hromowka type.

So to answer your question I think for a 25" blade, I would be tempted to go wider, say 2.5"-3", parallel edges and a triangular point. Fullers optional, but double or quadruple ones would look good.

I currently do not have a scanner, but I would be more than willing to send you copies of the blade scale drawing I have for the time period.

Andrew

[Marcus Mummius]

Thanks Andrew! I'm saving this info on my computer oops:

Are the dimensions you gave still correct for this period?

I would really like some drawings because if I have a sword custom made I want it to be absolutely perfect.

Kind regards,
Marcus Memmius

[aitor iriarte]

Jef,
As far as it can be discerned from the archaeological finds, later swords tended to be as long as the Straubig/Nydam but with broader blades. No fullers, if I recall well... :roll:

Andrew,
If you go for that pattern-welded sword by Mark Morrow, I'd love to see a pic of it and your final opinion on the balance quality/cost! 8)

Aitor

[Sassanid]

Aitor,

It will be a pleasure, although I still suspect it will be 6months to a year. by the time I get it. I still have much more research to do and I am waiting to see the new Albion swords due out in summer. I am also going to have a discussion with my local blacksmith who currently makes tables and fence pieces. But make no mistake the project is now very affordable and off the back burner again...

Please anyone - as Marcus mentioned in a previous post, if anyone has a picture of one of Mark's pattern welded blades, I would love to see it.

Marcus,

I would concur with Aitor on the later blades, and fullers certainly seem to be much rarer. I am afraid I don't have too many drawing of 4th and 5th century blades. I do have one for the Koln spatha, but I think that was probably late 3rd, early 4th. It certainly is in style a typical Straubing/Nydam type. The blade has slightly tapering edges, is 28" long, 2 inches wide at the handguard, has a small point and no fullers.

Andrew

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

SALVE

Concerning the blade's wide, do you know exemplars of only 3-3,5 cm?

[Sassanid]

3-3.5 cm... There was a 4th century one found at Alzey, Germany which was about 3.4 cm wide at the guard. It was only 47cm long though (not including the tang).

Andrew

[Marcus Mummius]

Thank you very much, all! So I'd like my sword to be 28" long(not including tang), 2" width at the cross, slightly tapering, a small point and no fullering.


One question still: how about the cross-section of 4th-5th century swords? Diamond or lenticular or something else?

Kindest regards,
Marcus Memmius/ Jef