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U.S. National Legion?!
#1
[size=150:1j85trb7]I[/size] have thought about this and I know it's Dan Peterson's pet project, but... HOW would it come about? I can see for some kind of big Roman event or something, yeah, we might all get together... but...
  • Who would be in charge?
    Would it be an elected post?
    What about disputes, disagreements and such?
    Who decides what shield design we all carry?
    For that matter, what unit would we all pick?
I know Dan's answers to this question, but I don't think he realizes JUST how complicated such an endeavor would be... :roll:
What are your thoughts ([size=75:1j85trb7]without violent response or hitting your monitor[/size])? Would you be willing to do something like this?
Best, DMV
DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS
a.k.a.: Marsh Wise
Legio IX Hispana www.legioix.org

Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt

"A fondness for power is implanted in most men, and it is natural to abuse it when acquired." -- Alexander Hamilton

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself." ~Mark Twain

[img size=150]http://www.romanobritain.org/Graphics/marsh_qr1.png[/img]
(Oooh, Marshall, you cannot use an icky modern QR code, it is against all policies and rules.)
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#2
Hi Marsh,
I assume you are referring to an earlier type Roman legion, as that is what most reenactors on this forum are, but there has also been talk of the same idea for late Roman reenactors in the U.S. as well. I don't know the details of how such a unit would be organized, but if it could be planned correctly, I would be all for this idea, at least from the late Roman reenactor's view point. Because there are not that many of us in the United States, it would be a good idea at a large "national" event where many of us were gathered to present a uniform appearance (at least with shield insignia), so that it didn't look like a motley gathering of tiny units. We would appear as one unified group. Now, having said that, I must admit that I don't know yet how our leader(s) or specific unit would be chosen, but I think a democratic voting election would be a fair way of accomplishing this goal.
I agree with you that it would be a very complicated thing to accomplish, but I would be willing to try it if others were agreeable as well. :wink:
Lucius Aurelius Metellus
a.k.a. Jeffrey L. Greene
MODERATOR
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#3
Well, I'm not really affected because I'm European-based and solitary, but I would have a problem with this. Not the shield design or chain of command - I can live with having these things dictated, and in case of the shield I'd actually prefer it. But there are two other aspects

- time period. It's all fair and nice to say 'early', but what does that mean? I would be worried that the time might come when an eager re-enactor gets told that "AD 138 has no place in the Natl Legion, our cutoff point is Trajan". What is the plan, two legions? Three? Five? This kind of thing is no big problem with things like the Civil War that lasted all of seven years, but the Roman Empire is long.

- Geographical location. If the Great Ruling Body for All Reenactors in My Country decides to adopt XX Valeria Victrix, I can toss my linen pallium and En-Gedi-pattern bag in the bin. Again, the Roman Empire is bigger than the battlefields of the Civil War and Roman Reenactment, to me, is more than fighting barbarians. Civilian clothing and gear, food, religion, letters and literacy are all important, and these are very different from Wall Country to the Dodekaschoinos.

I don't think it will work on these terms. I would like something like a unified shield design and officers' ranks, but I don't think it's worth that price.
Der Kessel ist voll Bärks!

Volker Bach
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#4
[size=150:3hx7n02e]I[/size] might as well tell you that I agree about it not working and in fact, am kind of doing this to play "Devil's Advocate." I am expecting Dan P. to weigh in soon on this and tell us WHY it is needed.
Be calm Dan, be calm and logical.
Best, DMV
DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS
a.k.a.: Marsh Wise
Legio IX Hispana www.legioix.org

Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt

"A fondness for power is implanted in most men, and it is natural to abuse it when acquired." -- Alexander Hamilton

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself." ~Mark Twain

[img size=150]http://www.romanobritain.org/Graphics/marsh_qr1.png[/img]
(Oooh, Marshall, you cannot use an icky modern QR code, it is against all policies and rules.)
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#5
what about auxiliaries?, would you have us all become legionairies?, we would have to have at least 4 units for different time periods & troop types, as long as we have that many we might as well stay as we are since it would not be much better.
aka., John Shook
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#6
Quote:what about auxiliaries?, would you have us all become legionairies?, we would have to have at least 4 units for different time periods & troop types, as long as we have that many we might as well stay as we are since it would not be much better.
[size=150:1pbgkn0a]I[/size] would have nobody do anything... I am not an assimlilator.
M.
DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS
a.k.a.: Marsh Wise
Legio IX Hispana www.legioix.org

Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt

"A fondness for power is implanted in most men, and it is natural to abuse it when acquired." -- Alexander Hamilton

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself." ~Mark Twain

[img size=150]http://www.romanobritain.org/Graphics/marsh_qr1.png[/img]
(Oooh, Marshall, you cannot use an icky modern QR code, it is against all policies and rules.)
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#7
due to a variety of reasons I do not see how it could work. How to would we all get together? The size of the USA is so much greater than say Britain implying prohibitive travel times. I also do not see those having organized established legions changing their units.

On the other hand, why not a governing board of multiple legions? This fits with what we presently have. A central organization that we all join, donate dues to (everything costs money), that is responsible for both setting standards, organization of national events, and promoting the roman reenacting hobby. I imagine that there could be elected officers, perhaps organized along the roman ruling hierarchy, the officer class.
Titus Licinius Neuraleanus
aka Lee Holeva
Conscribe te militem in legionibus, vide mundum, inveni terras externas, cognosce miros peregrinos, eviscera eos.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.legiotricesima.org">http://www.legiotricesima.org
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#8
Well, let's just say the politics are bad enough and we're all under seperate rooves...

Logistically as has been mentioned, it's a nightmare. Secondly, who wants to be told what to do and how it should be done given that this is supposed to be a "fun" hobby. If a unit leader choses to do things a certain way, then so be it, but I for one wouldn't be keen on having my group's regulations dictated by a governing body.

Want me to switch my unit name and colours? Fat chance! I spent time and effort into painting my scutum and vexillum, as well as my website. How then will I be compensated if I must switch to another legion's unit markings? Or will it be that each legion can keep it's appearance as is...if that's the case, then what's the point in the first place? How would you regulate and enforce all of these mandates that are passed down from the head group? Pretty much impossible based on the current situation.

Roman reenacting is not an "organization"...it's a group of people participating in a hobby. That in itself begs the question...does it need to be regulated/unified?

Then you can also talk about numbers...when the membership or # of active participants in Roman Reenacting in N. America alone bridges 1000, then maybe you've got something to work with. But what are we at in real numbers...100? One hundred people or so in a country with what, 250 million?

And of course, yes...how would we "chose" who gets to rule? Who would want the job anyway? It's time consuming enough running your own group, and then having to balance your job, family, other hobbies, etc. etc. And then there's the financial matter to address...how much would it cost? How would my membership fees in the end, benefit me?

I remember this came up years ago on the old RAT...I was all for setting up some kind of organization to "govern" roman reenacting. Boy, was I on crack. If you made a list, I think you'd be hard pressed to dig up any pro's at all. But pages could be written on the cons.

Bad idea boys!

(Good topic for discussion though!)
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité

Legion: TBD
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#9
It's good to see everyone pouring so much effort and worry into why it can't happen as opposed to figuring out how to make it happen. Remind me never to pick you guys to do anything like discover the new world or a trade route to the far east...

:lol:

It would be nice to see a very large get together of Roman reenactors, regardless of what shield pattern they've got. Be nice to see them perfrom evolutions, do a long road march, and maybe even fight too rather than stand around and look pretty. Then you'd see interest in the hobby grow.
Los

aka Carlos Lourenco
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#10
Win the lotto and equip your own legion, thats what I plan to do Smile
-Gordak
AKA: Sam Johnson
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#11
I would just like to note that discovering the new world and establishing a trade route to the far east have high value returns. Joining a Roman styled Borg collective does not.

There is a difference between discussing why something can't be done and discussing why it shouldn't be done or why you don't want to participate in it.
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Leg XX VV
Tony Dah m

Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
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#12
Ave guys,
After reading this thread, I must admit that since my first post concerning this, I can definitely see the logic and reasoning behind your posts. Definitely good points to think about! :wink:
While I was excited that there could possibly be a large "legion" of Roman reenactors with the same shield insignia and proper officers, I must admit that it would indeed be a logistical nightmare to try and establish and run this thing...
Lucius Aurelius Metellus
a.k.a. Jeffrey L. Greene
MODERATOR
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#13
It would be a horrible job to try and be in charge of this.

And I would be deeply suspicious of anyone who actually wanted to do it.

In fact, I believe that desire to be in charge should be an automatic disqualification.
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Leg XX VV
Tony Dah m

Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
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#14
Quote:t's good to see everyone pouring so much effort and worry into why it can't happen as opposed to figuring out how to make it happen. Remind me never to pick you guys to do anything like discover the new world or a trade route to the far east...

Hey, I would love either a National Legion or some sort of governing national organization to form up. It's just going to be extremely difficult to get going.

Here's a question for those who'll done other periods of reenacting, such as USA civil war: over the last 30 years they've obviously gotten very well organized (at least they appear to be), what is their organizational structure like?
Titus Licinius Neuraleanus
aka Lee Holeva
Conscribe te militem in legionibus, vide mundum, inveni terras externas, cognosce miros peregrinos, eviscera eos.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.legiotricesima.org">http://www.legiotricesima.org
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#15
It is hard enough coming up with a simple set of standards for "pretend combat" with felt and plastic weapons that would not leave someone open to lawsuits. the I.S.P.A. has a loose (very loose) federation of like-minded groups, that will probably agree to abide by some basic safety standards at events where two or more groups get together. The group at least gives lip-service to a standard set of drill commands, and may even adopt a official "charter" for insurance purposes, but getting the various "Legions" and "Alae" and "Cohorts" to adopt one time period, tunic color or shield pattern is not in the near future. Usually we allow the "hosting unit" to announce the tunic color and the "date" of the event, and provide the Legion commander and Legion standard. I usually see any other standards brought along and kept for show, but usually not used in marches or drill.

Having "one national legion" would be like having "one American Infantry Battalion". Some people want to do 1776, some are doing 1812, some are into 1846, and many are doing 1863, while others are doing 1917 or 1944. They just won't all look good lumped in the same "unit" and they have different interests.
Yes, you could have a complete regiment of American Infantry reenactors, but not everyone would want to be in the 7th Infantry during the Mexican War Campaign! It's the same with Roman reenacting, not everyone wants to be legion Y in AD101 in Syria or whatever. It is better to have a federation of groups that share knowledge, and can have fun.

If someone has an event and wants to supply a certain shield with a certain design and invite only those people who will carry that shield at that event, fine. That is the event organizer's right, to set the conditions of the event. I guarantee that some won't come, because they will use the excuse that they value their shield design, but then, those people could find any number of excuses not to come, whether distance, schedule conflicts, cash problems, or whatever. Those people who want to come, will do what it takes, whether than means leaving their own shield at home, auctioning off the kids to the neighbors, or hitch-hiking cross country in their Roman outfit. Not everyone will be that hard core.

It's supposed to be a fun thing. If I can pay $20-30 a year to a governing body to have liability insurance at events, I'd do it. I don't need another magazine or journal, unless it has lots of accurate and cheap equipment.
Caius Fabius Maior
Charles Foxtrot
moderator, Roman Army Talk
link to the rules for posting
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