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Can anyone who's had some experience wearing a Corinthian helmet while reenacting tell me how much they really impair vision, hearing and comfort? Can you duel while wearing one? How long before you have to take it off? Ever have problems with it shifting around on your head? How well does it sit while resting "up" on the back of your head?
Answers to any or all of these questions would be most appreciated!
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SALVE
Can the nasal part damages the nose? Are original ones padded or not?
Hi, Danno,
I did reply to your direct message, but failed to mention a couple of points. For everyone's benefit, our experience in The Hoplite Association has taught us the following:-
The fully-closed Corinthian makes hearing commands damned near impossible. We use later-style ones with ear cut-outs.
The field of view is extremely good for a full-face helm, but makes it difficult to maintain dressing on the march without keeping the head turned to the right (which is where we place our markers). I see no reason why Ancient Greeks would not march in this manner or even keep turning the head to the right to check the dressing, returning to front -facing to check the terrain. It is part of modern military philosophy that the head must be still and kept to the front. Clearly, stillness and consistency can impress the enemy, but they are not necessary to the safety of the soldier or the efficient functioning of the formation as the avoidance of tripping and the maintenance of formation are.
A helmet that gives worthwhile protection does not have to be enormously heavy, although a good one is a noticeable weight. Dents on finds indicate that the material wasn't intended to resist blows without such damage. The finds I have seen are not very thick, compared to modern replicas, even allowing for corrosion. Thickness varies over the piece, as with all beaten armour, and the cheekpieces are particularly delicate.
We all line our helmets by one method or another - I can't imagine anyone being daft enought to wear any kind of protection for the head without some kind of shock absorber. Careful choice of helmet and liner should give such a good fit that there is very little shifting in use and the design of the Corinthian makes it less prone to shifting than other types, e.g., the pylos-helmet ( I hate the bloody thing, it looks STUPID). Even so, unless you wear a chin strap, there will still be a small amount of movement, especially when the cheekplate tips catch on your aspis, as they are apt to do until and unless you learn to take steps to avoid this.
There is evidence that the cheekplates and nasal were also lined, though not necessarily padded. The nasal will damage you if the helmet is loose on your head or is knocked onto the nose by a blow. My Viking helmet has no lining or padding on the nasal and cut my nose when I faked a headbutt to my opponent. However, the chinstrap was not done up at the time. I've done ( and taken!) some quite serious head-butting with the chinstrap in place and reckon you could do the same with a Corinthian IF it's the same gauge. Many of the ones on the market at present are not suitable for combat and I have dents in mine where my Hoplomachai has hit me with his staff for buggering up the drill. He's always picking on me - it's not as if I'm the only one who ever gets anything wrong, it's not fair, he's never liked me since I called him a Nanos , ( well, he IS short)...
Sorry, where was I? Oh, yes, wearing the thing on the back of your head can be done and looks quite flash but it DOESN'T look quite like the statues and DEFINITELY not like the illustrations in the Osprey books. The cheekpieces are so long, that part of your face will always be obscured by them, if the helmet is not to fall off. Some pictures have the bowl of the helmet depicted as behind the head; this is impossible, just ask gravity.
Pollis of Thespiae,
aka Paul Allen
Further to your question regarding wearing the Corinthian "up"; firstly, this will always be more comfortable if the cheekpieces and nasal are lined. Secondly, there is now a picture of the author (that's me) on duty at the British Museum ( of COURSE I had to mention it!) with Corinthian in said position, which clearly demonstrates much of what the author (that's me) said in his last post to be utter tripe! You can see the whole face with quite horrifying clarity. I was actually able to walk around with the helmet in this position, although it was like one of those deportment exercises where you walk around with a book on your head. The picture is at www. hoplites.org. I think it's on the Home page. you may find some of the other images there helpful. (You may find them offensive, but that's a chance you have to take...)
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I've noticed a few things on greek vases about the corinthian helm. I am no specialist so I don't know whether they reflect different periods of time or different "fashions".
On some of those vases the warriors are seen tying their long hair into a knot at the back of the head and I wonder if that knot didn't fuction as a sort of cushion, or wedge, or block, allowing the helmet to sit more firmly on the head. Also, It seems the knot is located exactly at the place at the back of the head where the helmet "hinges" in the "up" position and I wonder whether this is the secret for wearing the corinthian in the "up" position without walking like you had a book on the head..
Of course this works only with the later corinthians, the ones with the cranial ridge, not with the earlier models such as the Myros type.
Some other vases clearly depict an arming cap covering only the top of the skull and yet some other evidence (I think sculpture) show lappets of soft material sticking out of the helmet sides when in the "down" dosition, meaning the arming cap in this case maybe a sort of phrygian cap.
Has anybody tried to long hair solution? Or any other solution? And anyways what is the solution you guys chose when wearing that helmet?
Pascal Sabas
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Yes you are probably right. Hear knots functioned like cusions but not every one has a "lio's mane" so...
Some short of arming cap might have existed but being perishable stuff, it did not made it through the ages.
A grave stone from Kerameikos shows a hoplite's hand holding a pilos cup semifolded. So this might be the solution for pilos helmet.
Some other folclore sufgestions that might help:
The Kretan headband. It comes in light and thick variand from the material that is used. It is rolled arround the skull like a turban and it can give some space between the skin and the metal because the helmet rests on the headband. (Doric hopites.) I think the i-net might give pictures. If not tell me.
The Pondic headband. The closest depiction was the Varangian Guardsman in Osprey "Armies of the Crusades". A similar head band is part of the Pontic national dress. (hoplites of Trapezounda and Sinopi!) Again the net for images.
The basket cup!! (dont laugh!!) Prety mucch like a wicker "Spangehelm" with the scull crown ring reinforsed with leather. toy na fit cheack adjustments (Attic-Chalcidic helmet also!) Still reseraching that though!
I hope I helped.
Kind regards
Stefanos.
I think all the ways of padding the helm have now been mentioned. I think the hair would have been tied back mainly to stop it being dragged in front of the eyes when the helmet is put on. I found this a problem when my hair wa long, but not long enough to be tied back! The extra padding at the back, and its potential for supporting the helm in the "up" position, was probably a "fringe" benefit :oops:
I don't think it matters much which type of helmet we are discussing, when it comes to padding; all the methods could be used with any type.
The Hoplite Association will be at Cosmeston ( Welsh Folk Museum) on Sunday and Monday, 29th and 30th May. If any of you live in the vicinity, come and visit us there. I have some interesting new kit...
