What were macedonians?

[taira1180]

Hi!
I have a doubt: i know that the macedonians weren't exactly greeks, they spoke a diferent language (Plutarch said that once, Alexander when furious beggin to spoke in macedonian unstead of greek), but how close were they of the greeks? Or they were another barbarian people that was considered helenized since they adopted the greek culture?
Thanks in the advance.

[Antonius Lucretius]

[url:ubo3yd7d]http://encyclopedia.lockergnome.com/s/b/Macedon[/url]

Click on the link. That will save you a lot of time sifting through all the sites --either pro-greek or pro-macedonian-- that deal more in propaganda than proper historical research.
Basically, the answer is: we don't really know. They spoke probably one of many hellenic dialects (Doric?), influenced by neighbouring Thrace and Illyria.
A reminder: Today's Greeks and Macedonians have little in common with the ancient Greeks and Macedonians. A lot of different people (slavonics, bulgars etc..) passed through since then.
That will put the present greco-macedonian quarrel in perspective.. 8)

[taira1180]

Thanks for the reply. The sites i look, had indeed more modern politic than any clear answers.

[hoplite14gr]

Thanks for the reply. The sites i look, had indeed more modern politic than any clear answers.

Verify in the net what I answer to your question.

MAKEDNOS in ancient Greek means tall person. D pronounced like TH in article THE.

Southern Greeks conciderd Makedonians country bumkins.
Extremistic localism unfortuantly still plagues our country!
They might question that you are not Greek if you do not live in the same neigborhood with them!!!
Before 146 BC rule of the thump says that if you were allowed to participate in Olympic Games it means that the other Greeks considered you Greek.
King Sitalkes(Strong Grain in Greek) horses won in Olympia.
Philip found out about the birth of his son the day that his horses won in Olympia. In Dispilio-Kastoria in modern day Macedonia a a plaque was found with Grammic script A (Bronze age Greek alphabet) Monuments in Ancient Aigae the ancint capital of Macedonia are all in Greek.
Professor M. Andronicos who found the royal Makedonian tomps and had DNA test done on the bones says there is no differance between that of the tomps in south Greece.
http://www.ancientgr.com/ (The dispilio picture)

[Hoplitesmores]

---------reminder: Today's Greeks and Macedonians have little in common with the ancient Greeks and Macedonians. A lot of different people (slavonics, bulgars etc..) passed through since then---------

1st the only Macedonians are Greeks

2nd modern Greeks are native and descentants of Ancient Greeks.The only ones questioning this are fascists and communists.

[Jona Lendering]

The only ones questioning this are fascists and communists.

I think that is not true. I know quite a lot of people who are neither extreme right nor extreme left who have perfectly reasonably arguments to explain why things are not so simple.

The main point is: what do we mean with ethnicity? The old view was that nations are eternal; the modern view is that although the idea of a nation can be long-lived, great changes in the ethnic composition are possible. E.g., the modern Frisians are ethnically not related to the ancient Frisians, but to the ancient Saxons. It is exaggerated, and insulting, to call everyone who looks at ethnicity and uses modern anthropological insights a fascist or a communist.

I suggest we terminate this topic.

[Arthes]

Khaire Stefanos,

Professor M. Andronicos who found the royal Makedonian tomps and had DNA test done on the bones says there is no differance between that of the tomps in south Greece.
http://www.ancientgr.com/ (The dispilio picture)

I can't find the report..if that is the Aigai-Vergina remains I would be interested to see it....?
Now you come to the question of who is in the main tomb, Philippos or Arrhidaeus :?
In theory, Phillipos or Arrhidaeus would show differently to Alexander IV, as DNA is mainly taken from the mother's line....
Arrhidaeus was the son of a Thessalian, so would have their DNA stamp and Alexander IV was the son of a Bactrian/Sogdianan... so he would show a different DNA...his grandmother was from Epirus
who were considered as Barbarians by the Greeks, except for Olympias's family....as they were descended from Achilles...so it would be interesting to see what their DNA shows... :wink:
Any matching DNA of the remains would have to be from the father's maternal side and if Alexander IV shows the same as Arrhidaeus or Philippos, surely that should stop the arguments as to whether Philippos was Alexander's natural father.. :? .
I don't wish to upset anybody and am not taking sides in this. I am just stating that Alexander's family had some mixed bloodlines ... and whatever the arguments, he considered himself a Macedonian, that fact cannot be changed...
regards
Arthes

[Hoplitesmores]

I am not saying Perikles is somebody's grand - grand -grandfather.i dont care about dna.....
I agree to just terminate this topic.

[Eleatic Guest]

A reminder: Today's Greeks and Macedonians have little in common with the ancient Greeks and Macedonians. A lot of different people (slavonics, bulgars etc..) passed through since then.

I am not disagreeing with you here altogether (I will maintain a neutral stance here), but at least for the Aegean Islands this does not seem true to me. Only Turks and Italians may have settled there, but the Italians hardly in any significant numbers and the Turks may have remained a separate element until they were all expelled in 1922. So, even going from a mere genetic point of view, a modern Greek form the Kyklades might well be a direct descendant of the classical Greeks (the hook nose gives him away anyway).

Otherwise, all peoples have mixed with other folks and the only group who did not, the so-called natural peoples, are now largely threatened with imminent extinction.

[hoplite14gr]

Just google "Cavalli Sfortza" genetic tables and you will be surprised.
You will reconsider a lot and not only about Greeks.

Kind regards

[Eleatic Guest]

Just google "Cavalli Sfortza" genetic tables and you will be surprised.
You will reconsider a lot and not only about Greeks.

Kind regards

Yeah, I have 'genes and peoples' at home...astonishing figures...only 10% of the modern Hungarians have 'Hungarian' genes and the like...

[mayan king]

here you go my friend...ancient macedonians were greek without a doubt.

http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=9706

[mayan king]

by the way....for anyone interested..here's a list of kings of macedonia
greek of course..thank you


Macedonia
Argead dynasty
Karanos around 780 BC
Koinos around 750 BC
Tyrimmas around 720 BC
Perdiccas I 670 652 son of Tyrimmas
Argaeus 652 621 son of Perdiccas I
Philip I 621 588 son of Argaeus
Aeropus I 588 568 son of Philip I
Alcetas 568 540 son of Aeropus I
Amyntas I 540 498 son of Alcetas
Alexander I 498 454 son of Amyntas I
Perdiccas II 454 413 son of Alexander I
Archelaus 413 399 son of Perdiccas II
Orestes 399 396 son of Archelaus
Aeropus II 396 394
Amyntas II the Little 394 394 son of Archelaus
Pausanias 394 393 son of Aeropus II
Amyntas III 393 391 second grandson of Alexander I
Argaeus II 391 390 Lyngistis
Amyntas III 390 369 [see above]
Alexander II 369 368 son of Amyntas III
Ptolemy Alorites 368 365 husband of Eurydice (widow of Amyntas II)
Perdiccas III 365 359 son of Amyntas III
Amyntas IV 359 359 son of Perdiccas III
Philip II 359 336 son of Amyntas III
Alexander III the Great 336 323 son of Philip II
Perdiccas 323 321 Orestis
Philip III Arridaeus 323 317 son of Philip II
Alexander IV Aegeus 323 310 son of Alexander III
Antipatrid dynasty
Antipater I 321 319 Chalcidice
Polyperchon 319 316 Tymphaia
Cassander 316 297 son of Antipater I
Philip IV 297 297 son of Cassander
Antipater II 297 294 son of Cassander
Alexander V 297 294 son of Cassander
Antigonid dynasty
Demetrius I Poliorcetes 294 288 Beroia
Lysimachus 288 281 Krannon
Ptolemy Ceraunus 281 279 son of Ptolemy I of Egypt
Meleager 279 279 son of Ptolemy I of Egypt
Antipater Etesias 279 279 nephew of Cassander
Sosthenes 279 277
Antigonus II Gonatas 277 239 son of Demetrius I
Demetrius II Aetolicus 239 229 son of Antigonus II
Antigonus III Doson 229 221 grandson of Demetrius I
Philip V 221 179 son of Demetrius II
Perseas 179 168 son of Philip V
168 BC: The Romans, under Aemilius Paulus, conquer Macedonia

[mayan king]

here's the spartan kings

Sparta
Agiad house
Eurysthenes ? 930 fourth grandson of Heracles
Agis I 930 900 son of Eurysthenes
Echestratus 900 870 son of Agis I
Leobotas 870 840 son of Echestratus
Doryssus 840 815 son of Leobotas
Agesilaus I 815 786 son of Doryssus
Archelaus 786 760 son of Agesilaus I
Teleclus 760 740 son of Archelaus
Alcamenes 740 700 son of Teleclus
Polydorus 700 665 son of Alcamenes
Eurycrates 665 640 son of Polydorus
Anaxandridas I 640 615 son of Eurycrates
Eurycratidas 615 590 son of Anaxandridas I
Leon 590 560 son of Eurycratidas
Anaxandridas II 560 520 son of Leon
Cleomenes I 520 490 son of Anaxandridas II
Leonidas I 490 480 son of Anaxandridas II
Pleistarchus 480 459 son of Leonidas I
Pleistoanax 459 409 son of Cleomenes I
Pausanias 409 395 son of Pleistoanax
Agesipolis I 395 380 son of Pausanias
Cleombrotus I 380 371 son of Pausanias
Agesipolis II 371 370 son of Cleombrotus I
Cleomenes II 370 309 son of Cleombrotus I
Areus I 309 265 grandson of Cleomenes II
Acrotatus 265 262 son of Areus I
Areus II 262 254 son of Acrotatus
Leonidas II 254 242 grandson of Cleomenes II
Cleombrotus II 242 241 son-in-law of Leonidas II
Leonidas II 241 236 [see above]
Cleomenes III 236 227 son of Leonidas II
Eurypodid house
Procles ? 895 fourth grandson of Heracles
Eurypon 895 865 son of Procles
Prytanis 865 835 son of Eurypon
Polydectes 835 805 son of Prytanis
Eunomus 805 775 son of Polydectes
Charillus 775 750 son of Eunomus
Nicander 750 720 son of Charillus
Theopompus 720 675 son of Nicander
Anaxandridas 675 660 son of Theopompus
Archidamus I 660 645 son of Anaxandridas
Anaxilas 645 625 son of Archidamus I
Leotychidas I 625 600 son of Anaxilas
Hippocratidas 600 575 son of Leotychidas I
Agasicles 575 550 son of Hippocratidas
Ariston 550 515 son of Agasicles
Demaratus 515 491 son of Ariston
Leotychidas II 491 469 second grandson of Hippocratidas
Archidamus II 469 427 grandson of Leotychidas II
Agis II 427 399 son of Archidamus II
Agesilaus II 399 360 son of Archidamus II
Archidamus III 360 338 son of Agesilaus II
Agis III 338 331 son of Archidamus III
Eudamidas I 331 305 son of Archidamus III
Archidamus IV 305 275 son of Eudamidas I
Eudamidas II 275 244 son of Archidamus IV
Agis IV 244 241 son of Eudamidas II
Eudamidas III 241 228 son of Agis IV
Archidamus V 228 227 son of Eudamidas II
Tyranny
Cleomenes III 227 222 [see above]
Macedonian occupation 222 219
Lycurgus 219 210
Mahanidas 210 207
Nabis 207 192
192 BC: Union with the Achaian League

[mayan king]

here's the athenian kings

Athens
Pisistratus 561 560 son of Hippocrates
Lycurgus 560 558 son of Aristolaides
Pisistratus 558 556 [see above]
Lycurgus 556 546 [see above]
Pisistratus 546 527 [see above]
Hippias 527 510 son of Pisistratus
Cleisthenes 510 506 son of Megacles
Hipparchus 496 493 son of Charmus
Miltiades 493 489 son of Cimon
Themistocles 489 476 son of Neocles
Cimon 476 461 son of Miltiades
Pericles the Olympian 461 429 son of Xanthippus
Cleon 429 422 son of Cleaenetus
Nicias 422 420 son of Niceratus
Alcibiades 420 415 son of Clinias
Androcles 415 411
Pisander 411 411
Alcibiades 411 406 [see above]
Cleophon the Lyremaker 406 404
Critias 404 403 son of Callaeschrus
Thrasybulus 403 388 son of Lycus
Cephalus 388 378 son of Collytus
Callistratus 378 365 son of Empaedus
Timotheus 365 356 son of Conon
Aristophon 356 355 son of Aristophanes
Eubulus 355 342 son of Spintharus
Demosthenes 342 324 son of Demosthenes
Hyperides 324 322 son of Glaucippus
Phocion the Good 322 318 son of Phocus
Demetrius of Phalerum 318 307 son of Phanostratus
Stratocles 307 301 son of Euthydemus
Olympiodorus 301 295
Lachares 295 294
Olympiodorus 294 285 [see above]
Demochares 285 270 son of Hyperides
Macedonian occupation 270 267
Chremonides 267 261 son of Eteocles
Macedonian occupation 261 229
Eurycleides 229 228
Cephisodorus around 200 BC
Echedimus around 190 BC
Aristion 88 86
86 BC: The Romans, under Sulla, conquer Athens