Signa for Legio XIIII GMV

[Gaius Julius Quartus]

Avete -

This post may belong in the Reenactment section, but I'm trying it here first...

We are currently researching unit signum for our group, Legio XIIII GMV Wisconsin, and have found differing opinions on what they are to look like. I'm hoping someone can help out with ORIGINAL SOURCES from archaeology, grave stelae, or elsewhere.

Here's what we have found so far:

Two grave stelae from Mainz (the Secundus and Faustus ones on the photos section on this site - thanks, Jasper) show signa - from top to bottom - with these features:
Spear point
Crossbar with straps
Victory Wreath on the crossbar (is it an award from the Boudiccea revolt?)
3 or 6 disks (are these called Phalerae?)
Capricorn
Crescent (Moon)
Tassles
Foot steps
Butt Spike

This is pretty solid evidence, PRIMARY SOURES, following the two grave markers from signiferii from the unit.

Now, from SECONDARY SOURCES, are where my questions come in:

M. Simkins (Osprey) portrays the Leg XIIII Signa with a plaque at the top, on which is the wreath.

Stephen Dando-Collins ("Nero's Killing Machine") describes the signa with a plaque, and also unit name/number on it.

Where do these authors get their information?
What do they know that I don't?
Hoping someone out there can provide more information for us.

Right now we're building the Secundus signa, and are content with its historicity and accuracy. But we're always looking for more complete information. Who knows, we may need another project for next summer...

Thanks, in advance.

G. Jul. Quartus

[Daniel S Peterson]

Simkins interpreted the area behind the wreath as a rectangular block, but this may be a mistake. A block does seem to be evident behind the wreath, but may just as easily be an illusion created by two pendant straps suspended by a crossbar. You can see this alternative interpretation on page 49 of my book, in what is Signifier impression of the original LEG XIIII group now based at Fort Campbell, KY. I have since added the inscribed tablet because a fragment of what was probably such a tablet with a "COH" inscription has been found. Peter Connolly has also selected this version in the "Tib. Cl Max. the Legionary" book.

Dan

[Gaius Julius Quartus]

Thanks, Dan, for your reply.

I'm curious:
Where was the "COH" plate found?
Did it have any specific cohort designation on it?
Who owns/displays it now, and where can I get a look at it?

BTW - I was just reading about the Fourteenth's Batavian auxilia in Tacitus, and got to wondering about their signum. Would they have gone under "COH BAT" or something like that? I'm guessing that there are few to none inscriptions, and no signa have been found attached specifically to their units.

[Daniel S Peterson]

Gaius,
I believe it was found somewhere in Germany, though I can't say for sure as many of my books are still packed from my move. The most "mainstream" book you should find it in is Connolly's G&RatW. I believe only the "COH" is legible. The Batavian Cohorts were numbered and I believe their plate would have been something like "COH VI BAT" .

Dan

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Hi Daniel,
I'm just wondering about a late Roman signum for the Secunda Britannica. Some people believe that the Secunda Britannica was actually the remnants of the original Imperial Legio ll Augusta, so would it be unreasonable for us as fifth century soldiers of the Secunda Britannica to bear the old signum of the ll Augusta? Can you offer any advice?

[Daniel S Peterson]

Lucius,
Yes, the Roman army still used the "old" standards in the late empire. and they seem to be virtually identical. You see them represented on the late period coinage all the time. In the infantry units at least, the Draco did not replace the old signa, but seems to have merely been a supplement to them. They could serve a real function as a windsock for gauging the flight of missile weapons, but I suspect they were primarily a kind of "magic totem" to bring the perceived power of these creatures to the unit, and they were used by both the Barbarians and Romans alike. There is one account of Parthian dracos magically leaving their poles to devour Romans, and it is debatable whether this was intnded to be taken seriously or as satire. Jews and Romans alike believe "wind" was created by the flapping of huge dragon wings. Dracos had a Christian association too, which is probably why they continued to be used, and are specifically described in Constantine's army.

St. Augustine reminded his readers that when they admired the power and wisdom of "dragons", to first admire and worship God, who was the creator of the dragons. Several Jewish and early Christian religious texts mention the dragons that resided in heaven that devoured the souls of sinners, and of course, the true meaning of the Hebrew word "Seraphim", (now usually mistakenly perceived to be a winged, human-like angel), actually translates to mean a "fiery, flying serpent" which fairly decribes the appearance of a glittering gilded Draco. Perhaps the "Brazen Serpent" of Moses only had a brazen metal head and a textile body, and was an early version of the Draco.

Dan

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Thanks for your reply Dan. In Secunda, we do indeed have a draco, (or will have when I get it finished), but I am actually referring to the old signum, or vexillum rather, that was used by the ll AUG with the image of a capricorn. That's the "flag" that I was actually wondering about? Would it be appropriate to use the capricorn of the ll AUG, considering that it is believed that the Secunda Britannica was actually the later name and version of this same unit? :wink:

[aitor iriarte]

Gaius,
The fragmentary COH silver plate was recovered at the Niederbieber fort. If I recall well, the fort was destroyed during the Third century and the bones of a man were lying nearby. Unfortunately, I don't know where is it exhibited.
BTW, Incidentally, the famous draco head comes from the same fort!

Aitor

[Praefectusclassis]

Either that plate or a perfect copy (never know there) is in the Römisch-Germanisches Zentralmuseum in Mainz.

[Daniel S Peterson]

Lucius, yes vexilla continued to be used as well though if you are doing the Christian Army there might be a problem with your Capricorn, in addition to the unit designations being different. For although a seemingly pagan Draco emblem can fit quite comfortably into the "Early Christian Religious Panalopy" based on numerous Hebrew and early Christian scriptural sources as explained on a previous post, on the contrary astrology and the zodiac were generally condemned by these same Christians, and this is the whole point of the capricorn emblem.

I don't think there is any archaeological evidence for such emblems to be painted on Vexilla, though admit it looks cool, and I included these from other reenactment groups in my book. There is one carved Vexillum in which the inscription is intact, and shows the unit designation in lettering, but no animals or other symbology. I believe is is even LEG II AUG. This is why I didn't paint or embroider a capricorn on our vexillum, but instead just used the lettering like the original sculpture, but added the bronze capricorn staff finial based on a surviving artifact, and similar images surmounting fabric vexilla on Trajan's column.

Dan

[Praefectusclassis]

There's an example of a later Roman vexillum on this tombstone: http://www.romanarmy.nl/content/imageba ... asp?ID=157

[Daniel S Peterson]

Thanks Jasper,
those too, seem to confirm what I said before about there being no evidence for symbology painted on Roman unit vexilla. There is of course the one from russia with the goddess Victory, but no unit designation. This suggestes to be it was an award, and possibly not even limited to the military, but even the "victor" of a chariot race or gladitorial fight!
Dan

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Hi Dan & Jasper,
Thank you for your help and advice. Dan, I am indeed familiar with the Roman vexillum that is preserved in Moscow, I believe it was found in Egypt, and there is a nice reconstruction painting of it in Graham Sumner's Osprey book Roman Military Clothing (2).
I had not intended to use the old ll Augusta's nomenclature or title on a vexillum for my unit, just a plain rectangle with no lettering, only an image of the capricorn in the center. I have no clue what the historical Secunda Britannica's vexillum would have looked like, and it may never be known, but I was trying to put what is commonly believed about the origins of Secunda together to form a vexillum that would at least be historically logical and plausible. As I mentioned in my earlier post, we do have a Draco standard, but I thought it would be nice to have a vexillum as well, just to display it in camp, not to carry it in any formation or event that we go to, as there are not enough of us in our unit to warrant its use.
So, with that in mind, could any of you help come up with some ideas on what would be a reasonably authentic and plausible vexillum for the Secunda Britannica?
P.S., as for the tombstone that you refer to Jasper, unless my eyes are just completely bad, it appears that the vexillum shown bears the image of an eagle. It is not very clear, and I definitely see no lettering, but I can clearly make out the outline of what appears to be an eagle's image on that banner... :wink:

[Praefectusclassis]

You mean there's an eagle on the vexillum or sitting on top of it?
It's definitely lettering on the vexillum, deciphered by M.P.Speidel as Ex(ercitus) Aquil(eiensis), the army of Aquileia.

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Hi Jasper,
Yes, it appears to be an eagle ON the vexillum, as if he were an image painted or embroidered on. Here is a closer view of the photo, and underneath, I have included a close up of a rough sketch that I drew of what I think I'm seeing... :wink: