Archery: Thumbring?

[Et tu brute]

Just a little side note on the draw weights of the mary rose... Steve Stratton ( www.diyarchery.co.uk ) who makes bows from high altitude Italian Yew recently made a number of bows to (I think) the mary rose specs, the heaviest came out at 202# @32" quite an astonishing draw weight, it's currently an sale on e-bay. The other bows he made were also of very high draw weights (in excess of 140#). Anyway, off-topic again, sorry :oops:

[ratty]

Back on thumb rings. There is some discussion among Asian archery scholars that more than a few Steppe cultures used a split two finger draw. Two may have been the Huns and the Sassanids.
Could be based on the fact of so few ring finds and not on concrete evidence.
On the ELB from the Mary Rose.Two bowyers (Rick Welsch and Chris Boynton I think)made replicas from Pacific Yew. Using only the dimensions of the two best bows. Both reps came in at over #100
as some contend.
The hand shock on those D class bows must have loosened the shooters teeth.
Jon R

The hand shock on those D class bows must have loosened the shooters teeth.

not true im afraid i shoot one at 110# and i pick up my stopgap bow on friday that is 135# hand shock realy isnt an issue unless the bow is badly made.

[ratty]

Hi guys,

well, Sean mentioned that there is no evidence that bows (bow design) became stronger from the Neolithicum until the late medieval period... but on the other hand there is not any hard evidence that they did not either...

Referring to the self bow, every bowyer will tell you that it is more difficult to make a 100# bow than to make a 50# bow. Firstly due to the availability of proper raw material, secondly due to the skill of the manufacturer, since stronger bows have less tolerance for flaws in craftsmanship.

I think this gets even worse for a composite bow, where you have to blend all ingredients together in the right configuration to make it work properly.

Finally this comparing longbows / self bows with composite bows, is like comparing a K98 rifle with a G11, both are propelling projectiles, but by different means.

In regard to the performance of different bow designs and draw weight I strongly recommend Tim Baker's Bow Design and Performance in The Traditional Bowyer's Bible By Jim Hamm (ed.) New York 1992.

Cheers,

Helge Dunbar

english warbow was designed to shoot a very heavy projectile long distance.

composit bows are made to be smaller with larger draw lengths for there size. they are very different bows but are both designed with hunting and warfare in mind.

Referring to the self bow, every bowyer will tell you that it is more difficult to make a 100# bow than to make a 50# bow. Firstly due to the availability of proper raw material, secondly due to the skill of the manufacturer, since stronger bows have less tolerance for flaws in craftsmanship.

im a bowyer although not commercial one and i wouldnt agree with this.

[Sean Manning]

Hi guys,

well, Sean mentioned that there is no evidence that bows (bow design) became stronger from the Neolithicum until the late medieval period... but on the other hand there is not any hard evidence that they did not either...

Referring to the self bow, every bowyer will tell you that it is more difficult to make a 100# bow than to make a 50# bow. Firstly due to the availability of proper raw material, secondly due to the skill of the manufacturer, since stronger bows have less tolerance for flaws in craftsmanship.

I think this gets even worse for a composite bow, where you have to blend all ingredients together in the right configuration to make it work properly.

Yeah, composite bows are very different things from self bows and we know designs changed over time and place. I don't know enough about Roman ones to get involved in the main thread of this discussion. People talk about improvements in composite bow design over time, but I'd bet the archer still made the difference. And I expect most Roman archers were very good at what they did (whether that was shooting far, or fast, or accurately, or whatever).

[jonwr]

Ratty
Thanks for cluing me in on the hand shock thing
My only experience with long bows has been the American flat versions like the Howard Hill style or self bows of various designs I have pick up here and there.
I had just assumed (Bad thing :oops: ) that a heavy bow tillered to bend though the handle would have some "kick" to it.
Jon R