03-27-2024, 05:15 AM
And the world held its breath waiting for the Perge document to finally reveal all about the Late Roman army. Well, I guess that did not eventuate. Army rosters are useless if we do not have the exact organisation of a Roman legion or any unit for that matter to compare with.
And yet, a lot of the data we do have on the Late Roman army is brushed aside by academia as being either unreliable, exaggerated, or, insert the numerous reasons why. Below is some of the data that has been dismissed by the higher and better informed:
The Passion of Saint George reports that Diocletian allocated the general Euchios, command of 3,000 soldiers to overthrow the Christian churches in Egypt. The Passion of Saint George also reports that Anastasius, the governor of Palestine being allocated 3,000 soldiers by the emperor Diocletian. Zosimus has the emperor Julian sail to Sirmium with 3,000 troops.
The figure of 3,000 soldiers is a rounded number, but 3,000 is where one should start, as it includes juniors and seniores, both infantry and cavalry, plus officers and supernumeraries. It is the whole package. Unfortunately, I have been told on many occasion that anything written in the Ante Nicene Fathers has been dismissed.
Well then, try and explain this.
In the Roman Martyrology, Saint Meletius with 252 of his soldiers was put to death for being avowed Christians. The historian Macarius, mentions that 1,104 soldiers were stationed at Melitene.
From “The Acts of the Disputation of Archelaus.” Archelaus was offered for a sum of money, a large number of Christian prisoners (men, women and children), by the soldiers of the camp. The tally of Christians consisted of ‘some’ 7,700 prisoners, of which 500 were wounded, and ‘about’ 1,300 Christians were killed. This gives a grand total of ‘about’ 9,000 Christians. The Second Book of Chronicles also uses the number 7,700 for the size of a flock of rams and goats. It could be that the original author recognised the similarity to the biblical number of 7,700 rams and goats, and therefore, partition those taken prisoners and wounded to closely recreate that figure.
The 9,000 Christians divided by Macarius’ 1,104 soldiers equals 8 point 15, so leave at 8 units x 1,104 soldiers = 8,832 soldiers. Now if I doubled the eight units to 16 units and then divided the 8,832 soldiers by 16 units, this produces 16 units each of 552 soldiers. But there’s more! At this stage, if I double the 552 soldiers this makes 1,104 soldiers, which brings us right back to Macarius’ figure of 1,104 soldiers stationed at Melitene. Can someone tell me where the maths is wrong? But there’s more. What if I take the figure of 552 and minus the 252 soldiers that died with Saint Meletius, I get a residue of 300 soldiers, so minus 252 again, and this leaves 48 soldiers. Well, bless my soul, I’m not scratching my head to the identity of those 48 soldiers but I guess you are.
The Passion of Saint George mentions on the twenty-fifth of the month of Epiphi, 2,408 Christian soldiers were executed by the order of Dadianus the governor of Bithynia. From this, one can extract the legion’s wedge formation.
Ammianus mentions the death of 50 soldiers. The Passion of Saint George also mentions two officers each commanding 50 soldiers. Coincidence? Hardly.
Ammianus mentions on three occasions that the Late Roman army was organised into cohorts, centuries and maniples. Like Ammianus, for the year 398 AD, Claudian also attests to the existence of maniples during the reign of the emperor Theodosius I (379 AD to 395 AD). When writing about the army of emperor Theodosius I, Pacatus writes that “the plain was bristling with troops: cavalry sent out to the wings, light troops placed in front of the standards, cohorts arranged by maniples, legions arrayed in squares, moving their columns forward at a quick pace, occupied the whole field as far as the eye could see.”
Wait up. Claudian claims the Late Roman army was made up of cohort arranged by maniples. Well, this goes against academia’s claim that the cohort legion replaced the maniple legion. So, who is right and who is wrong. Well, Claudian is wrong because, academia can never be wrong, nor can every amateur historian or wargamer.
The above references to the Roman organisation show the Late Roman army was organised into cohorts, maniples and centuries, and had been organised this way since 513 BC. Nothing has changed, just the size for the legion. The rule of thumb is centuries make maniples and maniple make cohorts.
According to Varro, a cohort consisted of several maniples. Notice how Varro is not specific in exactly how many maniples make a cohort. Throughout the primary sources for the early, mid and late republic, a vexillation or numerus and some other organisations have simply been called a “cohort,’ which accords with Varro’s comment that a cohort had several maniples. Later, during the principate, terms such as vexillation, numerus etc pop up, which shows the precise terminology is coming into play. However, such organisations have been around since the beginning of the republic, but all given the name “cohort.”
So, how did I manage to get Vegetius and the 1,104 soldiers to work? Well, first, I never listened to the nay sayers on this forum, and I have never taken on board this ridiculous concept of which ancient historians is more reliable than other historians. Numbers are numbers to me, and all are invaluable. This favouritism methodology amongst the ancient historian is a stupid concept, that as time has proven, has stifled any advancement in our study of the Roman army since Lipsus published the first book on the Roman army in 1596. The same stupid arguments found in Lipsus are still being debated. Professor Ridley once told me to never throw out evidence, and yet, this is exactly what academia does, it continuously throws the baby out with the bathwater.
I am still searching for that extensive study that proves that according to academics, Polybius is the most reliable historian. Why does academia believe it can make claims and not back them up?
And yet, a lot of the data we do have on the Late Roman army is brushed aside by academia as being either unreliable, exaggerated, or, insert the numerous reasons why. Below is some of the data that has been dismissed by the higher and better informed:
The Passion of Saint George reports that Diocletian allocated the general Euchios, command of 3,000 soldiers to overthrow the Christian churches in Egypt. The Passion of Saint George also reports that Anastasius, the governor of Palestine being allocated 3,000 soldiers by the emperor Diocletian. Zosimus has the emperor Julian sail to Sirmium with 3,000 troops.
The figure of 3,000 soldiers is a rounded number, but 3,000 is where one should start, as it includes juniors and seniores, both infantry and cavalry, plus officers and supernumeraries. It is the whole package. Unfortunately, I have been told on many occasion that anything written in the Ante Nicene Fathers has been dismissed.
Well then, try and explain this.
In the Roman Martyrology, Saint Meletius with 252 of his soldiers was put to death for being avowed Christians. The historian Macarius, mentions that 1,104 soldiers were stationed at Melitene.
From “The Acts of the Disputation of Archelaus.” Archelaus was offered for a sum of money, a large number of Christian prisoners (men, women and children), by the soldiers of the camp. The tally of Christians consisted of ‘some’ 7,700 prisoners, of which 500 were wounded, and ‘about’ 1,300 Christians were killed. This gives a grand total of ‘about’ 9,000 Christians. The Second Book of Chronicles also uses the number 7,700 for the size of a flock of rams and goats. It could be that the original author recognised the similarity to the biblical number of 7,700 rams and goats, and therefore, partition those taken prisoners and wounded to closely recreate that figure.
The 9,000 Christians divided by Macarius’ 1,104 soldiers equals 8 point 15, so leave at 8 units x 1,104 soldiers = 8,832 soldiers. Now if I doubled the eight units to 16 units and then divided the 8,832 soldiers by 16 units, this produces 16 units each of 552 soldiers. But there’s more! At this stage, if I double the 552 soldiers this makes 1,104 soldiers, which brings us right back to Macarius’ figure of 1,104 soldiers stationed at Melitene. Can someone tell me where the maths is wrong? But there’s more. What if I take the figure of 552 and minus the 252 soldiers that died with Saint Meletius, I get a residue of 300 soldiers, so minus 252 again, and this leaves 48 soldiers. Well, bless my soul, I’m not scratching my head to the identity of those 48 soldiers but I guess you are.
The Passion of Saint George mentions on the twenty-fifth of the month of Epiphi, 2,408 Christian soldiers were executed by the order of Dadianus the governor of Bithynia. From this, one can extract the legion’s wedge formation.
Ammianus mentions the death of 50 soldiers. The Passion of Saint George also mentions two officers each commanding 50 soldiers. Coincidence? Hardly.
Ammianus mentions on three occasions that the Late Roman army was organised into cohorts, centuries and maniples. Like Ammianus, for the year 398 AD, Claudian also attests to the existence of maniples during the reign of the emperor Theodosius I (379 AD to 395 AD). When writing about the army of emperor Theodosius I, Pacatus writes that “the plain was bristling with troops: cavalry sent out to the wings, light troops placed in front of the standards, cohorts arranged by maniples, legions arrayed in squares, moving their columns forward at a quick pace, occupied the whole field as far as the eye could see.”
Wait up. Claudian claims the Late Roman army was made up of cohort arranged by maniples. Well, this goes against academia’s claim that the cohort legion replaced the maniple legion. So, who is right and who is wrong. Well, Claudian is wrong because, academia can never be wrong, nor can every amateur historian or wargamer.
The above references to the Roman organisation show the Late Roman army was organised into cohorts, maniples and centuries, and had been organised this way since 513 BC. Nothing has changed, just the size for the legion. The rule of thumb is centuries make maniples and maniple make cohorts.
According to Varro, a cohort consisted of several maniples. Notice how Varro is not specific in exactly how many maniples make a cohort. Throughout the primary sources for the early, mid and late republic, a vexillation or numerus and some other organisations have simply been called a “cohort,’ which accords with Varro’s comment that a cohort had several maniples. Later, during the principate, terms such as vexillation, numerus etc pop up, which shows the precise terminology is coming into play. However, such organisations have been around since the beginning of the republic, but all given the name “cohort.”
So, how did I manage to get Vegetius and the 1,104 soldiers to work? Well, first, I never listened to the nay sayers on this forum, and I have never taken on board this ridiculous concept of which ancient historians is more reliable than other historians. Numbers are numbers to me, and all are invaluable. This favouritism methodology amongst the ancient historian is a stupid concept, that as time has proven, has stifled any advancement in our study of the Roman army since Lipsus published the first book on the Roman army in 1596. The same stupid arguments found in Lipsus are still being debated. Professor Ridley once told me to never throw out evidence, and yet, this is exactly what academia does, it continuously throws the baby out with the bathwater.
I am still searching for that extensive study that proves that according to academics, Polybius is the most reliable historian. Why does academia believe it can make claims and not back them up?
