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One of the few statues with a helmet.
Byt I have difficulty to determine what kind of helmet it is. If the lower part is part of the helmet its some sort of boeotian helmet. But I never saw such helmet where the brim is only in the front.
If the lower part supposed to depict a cloth, then it might by a classic attic-thracian helmet.
What are your thoughts?
Daniel
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Why not drop the cagliari Museum, where its located, and send an a email asking if they have further info?.
https://museoarcheocagliari.beniculturali.it/en/
[email protected]
[email protected]
All i know is its a stylised Hellenic helmet, but your after more than that.
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09-10-2021, 06:53 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2021, 07:17 AM by Crispianus.)
(09-09-2021, 08:11 PM)Corvus Wrote: One of the few statues with a helmet.
Byt I have difficulty to determine what kind of helmet it is. If the lower part is part of the helmet its some sort of boeotian helmet. But I never saw such helmet where the brim is only in the front.
If the lower part supposed to depict a cloth, then it might by a classic attic-thracian helmet.
What are your thoughts?
Looks like a Boetian type Hellenistic 2nd cent BC, theres a similar helmet with a complete "brim" neckguard in the Museum fur Kunst und Gewerbe Hamburg (or was), could be a lot of reasons why there appears to be no neckguard, statue may have been damaged and repaired is one, rememeber its art etc...
The peak also looks off to me...
Source: Antike Helme RGZM 1988.
Edit: notice some similarity with the Helmet of the left most figure.
Ivor
"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
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(09-09-2021, 09:55 PM)Hanny Wrote: Why not drop the cagliari Museum, where its located, and send an a email asking if they have further info?.
https://museoarcheocagliari.beniculturali.it/en/
[email protected]
[email protected]
All i know is its a stylised Hellenic helmet, but your after more than that. Thanks, I will give it a try.
(09-10-2021, 06:53 AM)Crispianus Wrote: (09-09-2021, 08:11 PM)Corvus Wrote: One of the few statues with a helmet.
Byt I have difficulty to determine what kind of helmet it is. If the lower part is part of the helmet its some sort of boeotian helmet. But I never saw such helmet where the brim is only in the front.
If the lower part supposed to depict a cloth, then it might by a classic attic-thracian helmet.
What are your thoughts?
Looks like a Boetian type Hellenistic 2nd cent BC, theres a similar helmet with a complete "brim" neckguard in the Museum fur Kunst und Gewerbe Hamburg (or was), could be a lot of reasons why there appears to be no neckguard, statue may have been damaged and repaired is one, rememeber its art etc...
The peak also looks off to me...
Source: Antike Helme RGZM 1988.
Yes, doesnt make any sense, to have the brim only in the front.
Or its not a brim, but some sort of cloth the helmet is resting on.
If ignoring the brim part the helmet looks more or less like this.
Daniel
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09-10-2021, 09:49 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2021, 10:07 AM by Crispianus.)
Heres a couple pf pics from "Antike Helme" RGZM 1988:
Hamburg:
mirror:
compare
Prodromi 3rd cent BC:
I included the Prodromi helmet because it has the crinkled brim though it also has a crest, but would still go with the boetian.
Ivor
"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
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(09-10-2021, 09:49 AM)Crispianus Wrote: Heres a couple pf pics from "Antike Helme" RGZM 1988:
Hamburg:
mirror:
compare
Prodromi 3rd cent BC:
I included the Prodromi helmet because it has the crinkled brim though it also has a crest, but would still go with the boetian.
Thanks.
Looks like the statue helmet has cheek pieces, but there are examples with cheek pieces as well of boetian helmet type.
Something similar to the prodromi helmet seems a good candidate as well.
Here is a relief of Nero and it seems the helmet depicted is a boeotian helmet.
I would asume this type of helmet was very popular with high ranking officers.
I guess a typical look of a military tribune or legate would have included some variation of a boeotian helmet.
Daniel
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I was thinking too to the Hellenistic Boetian, but the neck guard seems more coming from an Imperial Gallic. Maybe a combination of styles?
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(09-10-2021, 06:05 PM)CaesarAugustus Wrote: I was thinking too to the Hellenistic Boetian, but the neck guard seems more coming from an Imperial Gallic. Maybe a combination of styles?
If you mean the statue helmet, I would say the neck guard is more like of a normal attic-thracian helmet.
Daniel
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(09-10-2021, 06:17 PM)Corvus Wrote: (09-10-2021, 06:05 PM)CaesarAugustus Wrote: I was thinking too to the Hellenistic Boetian, but the neck guard seems more coming from an Imperial Gallic. Maybe a combination of styles?
If you mean the statue helmet, I would say the neck guard is more like of a normal attic-thracian helmet.
Yes, talking about the statue helmet. To me it does not seem an attic or thracian, I agree with Crispianus the front part really resembles the Hellenistic Boetian, but for the bottom... for what I can see, it has a big neck guard, with a height comparable to that of the canopy, at least for how I interpret it. To me, it remembers something like that the Imperial Gallic. Don't know if there are better explanation, but I don't see in it any attic or thracian helmet.
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(09-10-2021, 06:17 PM)Corvus Wrote: (09-10-2021, 06:05 PM)CaesarAugustus Wrote: I was thinking too to the Hellenistic Boetian, but the neck guard seems more coming from an Imperial Gallic. Maybe a combination of styles?
If you mean the statue helmet, I would say the neck guard is more like of a normal attic-thracian helmet.
(09-12-2021, 05:47 PM)CaesarAugustus Wrote: (09-10-2021, 06:17 PM)Corvus Wrote: (09-10-2021, 06:05 PM)CaesarAugustus Wrote: I was thinking too to the Hellenistic Boetian, but the neck guard seems more coming from an Imperial Gallic. Maybe a combination of styles?
If you mean the statue helmet, I would say the neck guard is more like of a normal attic-thracian helmet.
Yes, talking about the statue helmet. To me it does not seem an attic or thracian, I agree with Crispianus the front part really resembles the Hellenistic Boetian, but for the bottom... for what I can see, it has a big neck guard, with a height comparable to that of the canopy, at least for how I interpret it. To me, it remembers something like that the Imperial Gallic. Don't know if there are better explanation, but I don't see in it any attic or thracian helmet.
If you ignore the brim in the front it does look like an attic helmet variation
But I do tend to believe that its some sort of Boeotian helmet.
It strange for me though that the Brim is only in the front and there are no examples of such "hybrid" helmet.
Daniel
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Seeing photos of the bust of Pyrhus from the side in another thread, I think his helmet has similarities with the one of Drusus The helmet of Pyrhus has also a brim in the front and an attic style neck guard in the back. So this kind of helmets must have existed.
Helmets with large brims must have been really popular with commanders well into the time of Principate
Daniel
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