Tube and Yoke Term

[Adventurous Artisan]

I have spent hours searching the web and forum for the answer and have learned many other things but not the answer I sought.  

Who coined the term "Tube and Yoke" and where?  

Thank you.

[Dan Howard]

Good question. Earlier papers and reports simply use the phrase "Greek style armour". It was only in the last 2-3 decades that we started using "Tube and Yoke" to describe this type of armour.

[Creon01]

That's a good question! We often use modern terms to describe stuff that we are not quite sure what the ancients called. Isn't it amazing we don't know exactly what something depicted thousands of times was actually called! "Tube and yoke" is probably the most accepted common phrase used by non-professionals and frankly it seems to be used more and more by professionals as well as it does accurately describe what the armor looked like. Without a picture one can immediately know what the person is wearing on the depiction with just a bit of education. As for what it was made of, how long was it used, which types of fighters wore it, what color it was, why was it abandoned, who first used it...etc., there is little consensus here or in academia. We all believe it's NOT just an artistic convention as some other things depicted probably are (fighting naked with a helmet pushed back on the head comes to mind), that it was a real thing used as armor in real battles, and that's about all we agree on. Unless new data has become available that's where we are at the moment.

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Of course this does not answer your question does it? LOL

[Adventurous Artisan]

That's a good question! We often use modern terms to describe stuff that we are not quite sure what the ancients called. Isn't it amazing we don't know exactly what something depicted thousands of times was actually called! "Tube and yoke" is probably the most accepted common phrase used by non-professionals and frankly it seems to be used more and more by professionals as well as it does accurately describe what the armor looked like. Without a picture one can immediately know what the person is wearing on the depiction with just a bit of education. As for what it was made of, how long was it used, which types of fighters wore it, what color it was, why was it abandoned, who first used it...etc., there is little consensus here or in academia. We all believe it's NOT just an artistic convention as some other things depicted probably are (fighting naked with a helmet pushed back on the head comes to mind), that it was a real thing used as armor in real battles, and that's about all we agree on. Unless new data has become available that's where we are at the moment.

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Of course this does not answer your question does it? LOL

Not Really   but thanks all the same.  Yes, It's kind of crazy how many differing opinions there are, all held by truly educated and intelligent people.  History is fun.

Levi

[Dan Howard]

Are the early versions of RAT still searchable? If they are then start by finding the earliest thread in which this phrase was used. As far as I can tell the term is only 2-3 decades old.

That's a good question! We often use modern terms to describe stuff that we are not quite sure what the ancients called. Isn't it amazing we don't know exactly what something depicted thousands of times was actually called!

Yes we do. They called it "armour" just like most people today do. It is only people like us who need to distinguish this type of armour from other types of armour, and even then, it is only when communicating among ourselves. When talking or writing for the population at large I simply use "Greek style armour" to convey my meaning.

[Creon01]

Dan, I believe the term is "armor" lol "Armour" is when two arms fall in love, preferably in Paris.

[Dan Howard]

Dan, I believe the term is "armor" lol "Armour" is when two arms fall in love, preferably in Paris.

Our language is referred to as "English", not "American". The correct, proper spelling in the Queen's English is "armour". Only in your corrupted bastardisation of the language is it spelled "armor".

[Creon01]

https://www.allpurposeguru.com/2017/09/r...-spelling/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDb_WsAt_Z0

[Sean Manning]

I think its basically an "ancient warfare geek on the Internet" term.  Academic papers more often write Jarva type IV (even though they don't use his other numbered types- he has ones for bell cuirass, improved bell cuirass, and muscled cuirass), linothorax, spolas, linen cuirass, or composite cuirass.  Remember, this is not a topic which gets discussed on paper in English very often!  Most historians are not interested in the details, so they pick a favourite theory or say something vague like "Jarva type IV" or "composite cuirass."

Edit: It is also an engineering term since the mid-20th-century or earlier, so I don't think you have much chance to find it ... its a term that spreads through offline and online conversations not books. I don't think anyone used it in print before 2013 or so.

[Adventurous Artisan]

Are the early versions of RAT still searchable? If they are then start by finding the earliest thread in which this phrase was used. As far as I can tell the term is only 2-3 decades old.

I actually spent two or more hours doing that, but every thread I found referenced it as an already established term so I wasn't able to find it's origin.  I was hoping someone might remember the conversation, but even 20 years is a bit ago.

Levi

[Feinman]

It looks like the earliest use on the Internet (that survives) is from 2001.  It also looks like Connolly's book Ancient Greece  was widely republished at that time, and I wouldn't be surprised if that description was used in that book or another one of his books.

[Crispianus]

In Connolly's The Greek armies 77 and Greece and Rome at War 81, in niether as far as I can see does he mention anything other then the "Linen Cuirass"...

Articles meant for the general public from a similar age mention:
Spolas, Spolades
Non metallic corselet
Linothorax
Linothorakes etc

I don't recall seeing "Tube and Yoke" till the new century...
but for me its a short description of a design ie mail, scale, linen, Leather, plate etc or a combo can all be TY...
So good for a general form but not much else.