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Greek names - did they REALLY mean that?
#1
Trying to interpret the “meaning” of Ancient Greek names. If for example Leonidas meant “son of the lion” -  how should we view that? Did greeks in ancient times actually “hear” son of the lion when Leonidas name was spoken - or was the name more of a construction of those words into a “word” of its own? I just can’t picture the friends of Philippos calling him “horse-lover” or “victory battle” to Nikomachos. Is it because my modern ears are unlearned and destroyed by Hollywood or was there a distinct difference between these words and the given names? I’ve understood that there are names that we don’t know the meaning of like Odysseus or Achilles, and I suppose that it’s more likely that the knowledge has been lost to us - but might not have been to the ancient greeks? Or should I rather suppose that some names just were so old that not even the greeks new their meaning, besides maybe a few learned? After all, languages and culture change over time, in Sweden were I live most names that people have (as probably in many other parts of the world) have lost their meaning unless you google it, and maybe we won’t get a straight answer even then. For example a common name for middle age and older males in Sweden is Ulf - originally meaning “wolf” - but even though this is quite common knowledge most swedes wouldn’t “hear” the word since the oldest word in Swedish for wolf is “ulv” with a “v” instead of an “f” and nowdays most people use the modern word “varg” for wolf (there is btw an interesting history about how that came to be but should probably be left for a different post). But even so, words like “Björn” - the modern word for “bear”, is a name so common that no one really hears (or sees) the “bear” anymore. On the other hand, names that were given to soldiers, a naming tradition of aprox 500 years old in Sweden - names like “Kvick”, “Stål” and “Hård” - “Quick”, “Steal” and “Hard” are the same adjectives as used today and often with the same spelling - here you actually “hear” the meaning of the words. And then there are names from different countries or names that are so old they completely stoped to mean anything - and I suppose Im guessing here that it would have been the same for the Greeks. Yet on the other hand I also understand that the meaning of names in the ancient world were of far greater importance than for us today were we usually just have some lose emotional connection to the connotations of a name. But maybe that was just for the people “that mattered”, eg free citizens with more money than most? Or were popular names “ok” to give to anyone - or wouldn’t they just have become sort of “washed out” - and thereby stop to mean anything?

And I still can’t picture Philippos being called “Horse-lover”… Grateful for any sharing of knowledge that will clear this up a bit for me or tips of relevant (and available) literature.

/Confused
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#2
(12-04-2019, 10:24 PM)Anatol Wyss Wrote: And I still can’t picture Philippos being called “Horse-lover”… Grateful for any sharing of knowledge that will clear this up a bit for me or tips of relevant (and available) literature.

/Confused
Well, you might have trouble believing that, but the ancients disagree and when people are explaining how their society works its a good idea for foreigners to listen to them:

Quote:Strepsiades (Aristophanes, Clouds, 59 and following): After this, when this son was born to us, to me, forsooth, and to my excellent wife, we squabbled then about the name: for she was for adding hippos ("horse") to the name, Xanthippus, or Charippus, or Callipides; but I was for giving him the name of his grandfather, Phidonides. For a time therefore we disputed; and then at length we agreed, and called him Phidippides. She used to take this son and fondle him, saying, “When you, being grown up, shall drive your chariot to the city, like Megacles, with a xystis.” But I used to say, “Nay, rather, when dressed in a leathern jerkin, you shall drive goats from Phelleus, like your father.” He paid no attention to my words, but poured a horse-fever over my property.

Most Greek names were etymologically transparent to speakers of classical Greek.  The evidence includes things like:

- When writers like Herodotus make up stories, the names often have appropriate meanings (eg. Hermotimos "honour of the phallic border statue" the eunuch who marks the expulsion of the Persians from Europe)
- In dialogues, people make puns about the literal meaning of each other's names (nomen est omen)
- Writers take care not to let readers confuse Perses "a male name" and Perses "Persian (adj.)"
- Names change with political changes eg. there are lots of "-demos" names in Athens while Athens is a democracy, not so many in monarchies and oligarchies; rich families have lots of arch- "leader" and hippo- "horse" names.
- Some names don't leave much to the imagination: in Egypt, a common Greek name for slaves and foundlings means "from the dung heap."

Edit: See also Plato's Cratylus where Socrates argues explicitly that Astyanax "king of the town" is a better name for a son of Hector ("holder, supporter"), and an impious man should not be called Theophilius "friend of god".
Nullis in verba

I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
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#3
A big thanks Sean for taking your time to answear. I’ll have to process that. Fantastic blog btw!
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