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Late roman civilian need help for his kit (Constantinian)
#1
Hello,

I need some help with my soft kit AKA a civilian.

I'm student of Archaeology currently doing excavation works in Aquileia, the famous Roman city in the north eastern part of Italy, we are working on the Great Bath, a Constantinian era bath dated thanks to an epigraphy which says so (CIL V, 8269). They were a sumptous public building of the late Roman city with many refined mosaics and inlay-work floors, marble wall-liners, today they are completely concealed below cultivated fields and unfortunatly most of the architectural decorations were spoiled during the Middle Age (but we're working on it!). With a colleague of mine we developed a project of reenacting the Late Antiquity life in Aquileia using "our" excavation: the great bath will give us a background for our impression and probably we'll use our impressions to teach about the History of the great bath, we'll make Living History and maybe, in the future, even experimental archaeology. 

The mosaics of Christian basilica, one of the first Christian church ever built (might be the third one) and likely Constantine himself "payed" for it, will give us sources for the clothing. Villa Armerina's mosaics will surely help. And our local Museo Archeologico Nazionale will give us plenty of buckles and brooches (but I have to visit them again) (http://www.italianways.com/wp-content/up...65x729.jpg, the Good Shepherd of Aquileia basically looks like the first of the Medievaldesign's offers, indeed he even wears campagi).

Given that I'm not that good at sewing I was thinking about buying the set Medievaldesign sells, I already bought from them a 17th century garb and I trust them. But I'm not sure about which one of them would be more correct, they sell various kits: one of them, the "Dura Europos" one seems more correct for early 4th century, however even the Villa Armerina looks good and correct. The campagi they sell is the correct one. (http://www.medievaldesign.com/restricted...e_8675.jpghttp://www.medievaldesign.com/restricted...e_1564.jpghttp://www.medievaldesign.com/restricted...e_7173.jpg).

I just have one single doubt, the belt. I think the ring buckle belt would be a better choice, however even a plain bronze buckle and a rectangular buckle would work too, personally I like more the ring buckle belt or the rectangular buckle. (http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEquip...gulum.html, they give quite a good, however broad, typology)  (which one of these do you suggest? https://www.replik-shop.de/Replicas/Germ...::243.htmlhttps://www.replik-shop.de/Replicas/Roma...::444.htmlhttps://www.replik-shop.de/Replicas/Roma...::445.htmlhttps://www.replik-shop.de/Replicas/Roma...::447.htmlhttps://www.replik-shop.de/Replicas/Roma...::449.html).

Titius Vettidius Cladus

William Sambo
[email protected]
https://uniud.academia.edu/WilliamSambo
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#2
I can only advise on the belt. The Germanic belt to early dated 2nd AD. The rest are military and wrong date, and as a civillian you would not wear. But if anyone out there has info on civillian site or grave goods may be able to help.
Regards Brennivs  Big Grin
Woe Ye The Vanquished
                     Brennvs 390 BC
When you have all this why do you envy our mud huts
                     Caratacvs
Centvrio Brennivs COH I Dacorivm (Roma Antiqvia)
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#3
Hello William,
A nice project! So far no realproblems, as you say your soft kit and shoes are from a good vendor.
If you are going for a civilian imprssion, I'm afraid that a crossbow brooch as well as a cingulum are out of the question - these are limited to soldiers and civil servants, civilians did not wear them.
Also, the crossbow brooches are not Italian, but Gallic and Germanic, with the non-military ones found from the Rhine to the Danube but not the Mediterranean. For Italy you'd want disc fibulae or animalistic ones.

Btw, Replik do not sell early 4th buckles, Holger Ratsdorf does: http://www.hr-replikate.de/katalog/indep...image=0355
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#4
Oh thanks! I knew HR replikate but didn't thought of him. Btw, found this interesting pdf about late antiquity militaria found in Aquileia: https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/hals...1/document, indeed they have some really nice propeller style belt! I'm think about going tomorrow to the museum to see them.

I think I'm going to reconstruct a civil servant by the way.
Titius Vettidius Cladus

William Sambo
[email protected]
https://uniud.academia.edu/WilliamSambo
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#5
(07-15-2019, 07:45 PM)Titius Vettidius Cladus Wrote:
Hello,

I need some help with my soft kit AKA a civilian.

The campagi they sell is the correct one.  http://www.medievaldesign.com/restricted/immagini

The shoes in the link above should be ok though this specific form is almost certainly on its way out by this time, the others are too early or too low class for a civil servant of the early 4th as I think you should be wairing "Calcei" (shoes with seperate uppers and soles) rather then "Carbatinas" (one piece) many of the surviving examples of these later shoes are in sizes worn by women and children and this should be taken in to account when making reconstructions, in other words you cant just enlarge all the details, very few complete examples are actually in adult male sizes.

You should note that these would be classed as "Ramshaws" though quite a bit different from the earlier pointed toe example from Zwammerdam (also Ramshaws) shown in the Dura costume but without its toecap.

I think generally the time scales given by MD are too broad for the roman footware..

An example of a reconstruction of a suitable shoe dated to the early/mid 4th century from Gloucester in a womens/childs size:

   

similar lower examples exist.

Wink
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
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#6
Yesterday I went visiting our local museum, they had some nice brooches and buckles, plus part of a late roman helmet which I'd like to show you.

[Image: IMG-1379.jpg]
[Image: IMG-1380.jpg] the buckle doesn't look late antiquity at all to me...
[Image: IMG-1381.jpg]

[Image: IMG-1382.jpg]

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[Image: IMG-1384.jpg]


And these pictures were taken inside the Basilica.
[Image: IMG-1364.jpg]

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[Image: IMG-1367.jpg]

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(07-20-2019, 10:15 AM)Crispianus Wrote:
(07-15-2019, 07:45 PM)Titius Vettidius Cladus Wrote:
Hello,

I need some help with my soft kit AKA a civilian.

The campagi they sell is the correct one.  http://www.medievaldesign.com/restricted/immagini

The shoes in the link above should be ok though this specific form is almost certainly on its way out by this time, the others are too early or too low class for a civil servant of the early 4th as I think you should be wairing "Calcei" (shoes with seperate uppers and soles) rather then "Carbatinas" (one piece) many of the surviving examples of these later shoes are in sizes worn by women and children and this should be taken in to account when making reconstructions, in other words you cant just enlarge all the details, very few complete examples are actually in adult male sizes.

You should note that these would be classed as "Ramshaws" though quite a bit different from the earlier pointed toe example from Zwammerdam (also Ramshaws) shown in the Dura costume but without its toecap.

I think generally the time scales given by MD are too broad for the roman footware..

An example of a reconstruction of a suitable shoe dated to the early/mid 4th century from Gloucester in a womens/childs size:



similar lower examples exist.

Wink

Thank you! I might just buy the Ramshaws afterall.
Titius Vettidius Cladus

William Sambo
[email protected]
https://uniud.academia.edu/WilliamSambo
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#7
Hello,

I've found some interesting late antiquity cemeteries near Aquileia. And for the sake of my living project history I've decided to reconstruct one of those graves: it's n. 44 of Iutizzo. The grave it's dated to about 352 or slightly after thanks to the presence of two coins (of which I can't find pictures). Apparently the deceased was interpreted as a soldier (perhaps of Magnentius or Constantius II)  or a civil servant because of the presence of both the Propellerbeschlage style belt and Zwiebelknopffibel. He had a small amphora too (mid roman 3).

The Propellerbeschlage style belt is the only one found complete here in Friuli. The belt was apparently long 120 cm with the Propellerbeschlage every 15 cm, such a big guy!, the Propellerbeschlage have almost all the same dimensions, the further from the buckle the slightly smaller they become so the belt must have been somewhat triangular. Small pieces of mineralized leather were found, it was 3mm thick. Apparently no terminal plate was found. The buckle is 8,6 x 7,5 cm, with the square of 5,8 cm, the Propellerbeschlage vary from 5,8 x 2,4 cm to 4,9 x 2 cm.

The Zwiebelknopffibel aka crossbow brooch was long 9,6 cm, had an height of 3,2 and a width of 6,6 cm.

I am quite happy with this project so far, my thesis was about the Tractus Italiae Circa Alpes and Claustra Alpium Iuliarum, altough personally I'm not that interested in the military matters but rather on the material culture. The project provides me the possibily of reconstructing some of this material culture and possibily to use those reconstruction for teaching purpose at the University's archeological excavation.


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Titius Vettidius Cladus

William Sambo
[email protected]
https://uniud.academia.edu/WilliamSambo
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#8
It's indeed all for soldiers or civil servants, civilians did not wear these elaborate belt sets.

btw it's Zwiebelknopffibel ('union knob brooch') Smile
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#9
(07-28-2019, 08:26 PM)Robert Vermaat Wrote: It's indeed all for soldiers or civil servants, civilians did not wear these elaborate belt sets.

btw it's Zwiebelknopffibel ('union knob brooch') Smile

Ah thanks! Errata corrige.

[Image: IMG-1403.jpg] [Image: IMG-1404.jpg] [Image: IMG-1405.jpg] [Image: IMG-1406.jpg]

BTW, I went visiting the Museo Paleocristiano of Aquileia and found this nice epigraphy, which I already knew and saw on the internet on a very low quality picture so I thought to take a better picture of it. Interesting enough the guy has the same pattern shield of the Moesiaci seniores of the Notitia Dignitatum. Well done!

https://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed...t/HD002023
Titius Vettidius Cladus

William Sambo
[email protected]
https://uniud.academia.edu/WilliamSambo
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#10
(07-29-2019, 05:02 PM)Titius Vettidius Cladus Wrote:
BTW, I went visiting the Museo Paleocristiano of Aquileia and found this nice epigraphy, which I already knew and saw on the internet on a very low quality picture so I thought to take a better picture of it. Interesting enough the guy has the same pattern shield of the Moesiaci seniores of the Notitia Dignitatum. Well done!



Many thanks!
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#11
Echoed!
Francis Hagan

The Barcarii
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