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Roman soldiers in China
#16
This is all I'm saying. <p><BR><p align=left><font color=gold><font size=2>
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MILES CASCA TARQVINIVS GEMINVS<BR>
<a href=http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org> LEG IX HSPA COH V CEN VIII CON III </font></font><BR>
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VIRES ET VALOR PRO GLORIA ROMAE<BR>
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#17
The simple truth is that when I wrote the first draft of my response to Barca, as I was suggesting to visit an imaginary web site with all such ideas, it occurred to me that maybe a web site with that name existed! Of course I was suprised to find one. I decided to make the link anyway because I find it very funny. There is no other meaning to my response.<br>
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A posteriori I could invent one up here and now: maybe the home page of this site is actually a fake to cover up the real innards where important "facts" and "theories" are discussed in "liberty", free from suppression by the power international agencies that have imposed false official historical truths. "You need to cover up to avoid being covered up."<br>
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Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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#18
That's a good idea...www.blackhelicopters.com or www.catcherintherye.com.. . <p><BR><p align=left><font color=gold><font size=2>
_______________________________<BR>
MILES CASCA TARQVINIVS GEMINVS<BR>
<a href=http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org> LEG IX HSPA COH V CEN VIII CON III </font></font><BR>
<font color=gold><font size=2>
VIRES ET VALOR PRO GLORIA ROMAE<BR>
_______________________________</font></font></p><i></i>
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#19
I've been researching on this topic for some time - it's for a fiction contest I'm planning to enter, you see... Anyway, I've been reading some primary Chinese sources, and here're some facts (all Chinese names romanised in Pinyin):<br>
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1. Around 130BC, Zhang Qian, Han emissary from Emperor Wudi, reaches the Kushan Empire ("Dayueshi"). He fails to talk them into beating the Huns ("Xiongnu", those who destroyed the Roman Empire in the 4th Century AD), but opens a trade route with them. It was here when the Han Empire first heard of Parthia ("Anxi") and Alexandria ("Liqian"; mistaken as the Roman Republic). The Silk Road comes into being.<br>
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2. 53BC, Battle of Carrhae between Rome and Parthia (as we all know) It is from here that the legend of lost Roman legionaries stems.<br>
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3. 36BC, Han generals of Chen Tang and Gan Yanshou destroy the rebellious Hun chief, Zhizhi. According to a primary Chinese source: Han Shu (The Book of Han Dynasty), the Han soldiers saw soldiers practising with their shields interlocked together, and there was a wooden fort outside actual stone city. Some think this relates to the Roman testudo and the way Romans built their temporary wooden forts.<br>
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One supporting evidence that Romans were in China was that how two counties laid down in modern Gansu around 30BC have names that relate to the Romans: Hefan ("pacifying the barbarians") and Liguang (no actual meaning, but the Cantonese way of reading "Liqian" sounds like "Liguang")<br>
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But one problem is that the book states that any and all captives were distributed to the allies of Han in the Western Region ("Xiyu", modern Xinjiang). But there is always a possibility some slipped through the net.<br>
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Anyway, sliding a little off track: "Daqin" was the name of the Roman Empire during the Later Han Dynasty (20 - 220AD). The name originates from the Qin Dynasty in China, because the Chinese think that the Roman Empire resembles China (from "Hou Han Shu"; Book of the Later Han).<br>
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In 96AD, Ban Chao, emissary of the Later Han Dynasty, sends Gan Ying to try to establish relations with Daqin, but were warned of stormy seas in "Tiaozhi". "Tang Tong Dian", the Encylopedia of the Tang Dynasty, states that Tiaozhi is the western border of Parthia (modern Iraq), but an atlas drawn up in the Qing Dynasty states that Tiaozhi is in current Ukraine.<br>
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According to Hou Han Shu, in 196AD, Emperor "An Dun" from Rome sent an emissary by way of Vietnam to Loyang, capital of China at that time, and offered gifts such as ivory, horn of rhinocerous and tortoise shells. In return the Emperor of China gifted the emissary with an Imperial letter, gold and silver, and colourful cloths and silks. A Roman glass bottle has been unearthed from a royalty's tomb in Loyang.<br>
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Tang Tong Dian has several paragraphs about Rome. Some entries include:<br>
- Rome's palaces were made with crystal<br>
- Rome's emperors were very wise, and they were fine with being deposed when disaster strikes<br>
- Rome's products include glass, precious stones, weird creatures, and woollen cloth<br>
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It also talks about other colonies and dependencies of Rome, for example Judaea ("Molun") <p></p><i></i>
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#20
On a related topic, wasn't there some sort of theory or story or whichever that stated there was a "lost legion" that got as far as Siberia? Or perhaps what would become Moscow at best?<br>
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Some person at a Ren Faire (well there's a start) I was doing a Roman presentation at last year was asking me all sorts of questions about this lost legion...<br>
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Is this an "Urban Legend" floating around or was this guy pulling my tunica as it were?<br>
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I have no idea about this Chinese-Roman deal. Although I could see a remote possibility with Alexandria as a trading port...but..who knows.<br>
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Matt - Wait, you're saying the Romans are NOT the only ones to use shields in front?? ::GASP:: what a concept!<br>
Waiting for Mel Gibson to come out with his Roman movie showing Romans in leather armor holding the shields horizontally...Oh wait, they didn't need sheilds cause they ran around chopping up enemies with Claymores!<br>
In trooper helmets no less<br>
Or those half-a$$ed Imp. Italic D's they have in that other movie he made.<br>
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velete<br>
ANDY <p></p><i></i>
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#21
AVE IMPERATORS!<br>
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well this topic is interesting to say the least...<br>
the Chinese...already with grenades, crossbows and the Almighty Romans with their strength in intellect and Legions....<br>
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who would win?<br>
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#22
come all you afficionadoes!!<br>
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this is the greatest topic, where is everyone?<br>
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well considering the chinese were the only other 'civilised' nation in ancient times, and had exactly the same troubles with barbarians, built the great wall to keep them out (sound similar to hadrians wall or the limites) ...they had various successes with campaigning against the barbarous ones, but awakening a sleeping giant were crushed entirely, the whole empire overun..<br>
millions killed.....the new mongol rulers even refusing to learn 'chinese'.....the worlds 1st train tracks were destroyed and covered up..<br>
printing machines werent to be discovered again till 1400s(i am pretty sure?) and a ton of other things..<br>
they were also a peoples promoting 'peace'...<br>
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anyway if the two empires of ancient times went head to head with full strength armies, who would win?<br>
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alot think like this:<br>
www.geocities.com/Area51/...romea.html<br>
what do you think? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=agit8>agit8</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://images.google.com.au/images?q=tbn:FO6jWc7rDioJ:agit8.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/agicov_2num.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 4/1/04 2:03 pm<br></i>
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#23
Rome vs China, very difficult<br>
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Chinese armies were really huge then (i remeber several accounts of 100,000+ of soldiers in Sun Pin and others..).<br>
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personally i think that the chinese cavalry was stronger (and a lot bigger) but the roman infantry would be a tough nut for the chinese inf.<br>
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i think it depens on the location, which period etc. <p>Professionals built the Titanic, amateurs built the ark<br>
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gr,
Jeroen Pelgrom
Rules for Posting

I would rather have fire storms of atmospheres than this cruel descent from a thousand years of dreams.
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#24
Uh, I'd say the Persian Empire was pretty damn civilized. <p></p><i></i>
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