04-01-2019, 03:01 PM
Michael wrote:
Polybius needed to find a cause for Hannibal to be defeated in a major battle but the reality was closer to Appian`s cavalry battle and skirmishes that preceded negotiations.
I’m still not one hundred percent convinced Polybius is the fabricator of the major battle of Zama between Hannibal and Scipio that involved 80 elephants. It is the source that Appian has followed that has 140 elephants at Utica that interests me. Polybius criticises Fabius Pictor and other ancient historians, and yet he remains quite about Alimentus.
Michael wrote:
I know, there is reference here to "Spanish and Celtic troops," but the overall impression of it (and Appian does go on to mention "Bruttian and Spanish horsemen"), is of cavalry combats which move and swing from side to side, rather than Polybius` account of comparatively more static infantry fighting.
Appian’s account of the battle of Zama, the big battle that is, has events belonging to the battle of Baecula. Many of Appian’s battles of the Second Punic War have been confused with other battles. However, I cannot blame Appian; so much fabrication has been added to the mix, Appian, like most other ancient historians, had a difficult time trying to understand what is what.
I’ve been reading about a papyrus, which is a fragmented account of the peace treaty between Scipio and the Carthaginians. The papyrus is believed to have been written before the writings of Polybius. The papyrus does not mention the Carthaginian raid on the Roman supply ships and the Carthaginian attack on Scipio’s ambassadors. That is because these events are fabrications based on real events. Appian has the Carthaginians order Hannibal to supply them with food from Hadrumetum, and these ships were caught in a storm and wrecked upon the coast. This is the real story about the supply ships, they were Carthaginian supply ships. There is also a reference from another writer about Hannibal’s army picking or growing fruit while in Africa. It all makes sense when you look at it objectively. Add this to the fact that the Roman supply ships were Nero's consular fleet, and Polybius' story does not hold water.
Polybius needed to find a cause for Hannibal to be defeated in a major battle but the reality was closer to Appian`s cavalry battle and skirmishes that preceded negotiations.
I’m still not one hundred percent convinced Polybius is the fabricator of the major battle of Zama between Hannibal and Scipio that involved 80 elephants. It is the source that Appian has followed that has 140 elephants at Utica that interests me. Polybius criticises Fabius Pictor and other ancient historians, and yet he remains quite about Alimentus.
Michael wrote:
I know, there is reference here to "Spanish and Celtic troops," but the overall impression of it (and Appian does go on to mention "Bruttian and Spanish horsemen"), is of cavalry combats which move and swing from side to side, rather than Polybius` account of comparatively more static infantry fighting.
Appian’s account of the battle of Zama, the big battle that is, has events belonging to the battle of Baecula. Many of Appian’s battles of the Second Punic War have been confused with other battles. However, I cannot blame Appian; so much fabrication has been added to the mix, Appian, like most other ancient historians, had a difficult time trying to understand what is what.
I’ve been reading about a papyrus, which is a fragmented account of the peace treaty between Scipio and the Carthaginians. The papyrus is believed to have been written before the writings of Polybius. The papyrus does not mention the Carthaginian raid on the Roman supply ships and the Carthaginian attack on Scipio’s ambassadors. That is because these events are fabrications based on real events. Appian has the Carthaginians order Hannibal to supply them with food from Hadrumetum, and these ships were caught in a storm and wrecked upon the coast. This is the real story about the supply ships, they were Carthaginian supply ships. There is also a reference from another writer about Hannibal’s army picking or growing fruit while in Africa. It all makes sense when you look at it objectively. Add this to the fact that the Roman supply ships were Nero's consular fleet, and Polybius' story does not hold water.
