08-28-2018, 05:19 AM
(This post was last modified: 08-28-2018, 07:06 AM by Steven James.)
Nathan wrote:
In any case, we know from Arrian that 8 men deep was possible - all we are discussing is whether it was usual. Or, indeed, whether there was a usual...
You can find the answer in Tacitus.
Nathan wrote:
Are you saying that the entire legion, or entire army, would be drawn up 2 men deep in a long line - or that the army/legion formed perhaps a triple acies, with each line (acies) two men deep?
You need to reread my previous posting. I mentioned a 120 maniple was arrayed 60 men wide by 2 men deep, and a legion of 30 maniples was arrayed 5 maniples wide by 6 maniples deep. With a maniple having a depth of two men, 6 maniples gives a total depth of 12 men. The legion is then in three lines each of 4 men deep. What Arrian is saying is the pilani are not with the legion.
If I left 10 maniples to guard the camp, the legion would have 20 maniples arrayed five maniples wide by four maniples deep. With a maniple having a depth of 2 men, the 20 maniple legion now has a depth of 8 men.
Nathan wrote:
All my considerations, unless stated otherwise, relate to the army of the Principiate.
Ok, see where you are coming from.
Nathan wrote:
I do not think that could possibly work. Horses advancing in a line need to have 4 feet between them (half a horse's length; each horse is about 8 feet long, so each occupies c.12 feet of road).
I have 10 feet long calculations. Cavalry placed in the flanks appears to have been done when in open country and not while travelling down a road. Also without knowing how many cavalry are allocated to what unit, how can you be so sure it cannot be done?
Nathan wrote:
So the whole army would be drawn up in four lines, each line a single legion arrayed four men deep - sixteen men deep in total, with spacings between the lines? Would that be about right?
Read Polybius’ account of the legion on the march and you will answer your own question.
Nathan wrote:
I don't know - it sounds pretty simple already to me!
Anything is simple in ones mind’s eye. Have you physically tried it with coloured blocks representing every century in the army?
Nathan wrote:
Arrian does not say that there are five centurions in the first cohort. He says nothing about the number of centurions.
DeVoto translation page 115, The Expedition Against the Alani: “five centurions who {are} rear chiefs of the first cohort.”
In any case, we know from Arrian that 8 men deep was possible - all we are discussing is whether it was usual. Or, indeed, whether there was a usual...
You can find the answer in Tacitus.
Nathan wrote:
Are you saying that the entire legion, or entire army, would be drawn up 2 men deep in a long line - or that the army/legion formed perhaps a triple acies, with each line (acies) two men deep?
You need to reread my previous posting. I mentioned a 120 maniple was arrayed 60 men wide by 2 men deep, and a legion of 30 maniples was arrayed 5 maniples wide by 6 maniples deep. With a maniple having a depth of two men, 6 maniples gives a total depth of 12 men. The legion is then in three lines each of 4 men deep. What Arrian is saying is the pilani are not with the legion.
If I left 10 maniples to guard the camp, the legion would have 20 maniples arrayed five maniples wide by four maniples deep. With a maniple having a depth of 2 men, the 20 maniple legion now has a depth of 8 men.
Nathan wrote:
All my considerations, unless stated otherwise, relate to the army of the Principiate.
Ok, see where you are coming from.
Nathan wrote:
I do not think that could possibly work. Horses advancing in a line need to have 4 feet between them (half a horse's length; each horse is about 8 feet long, so each occupies c.12 feet of road).
I have 10 feet long calculations. Cavalry placed in the flanks appears to have been done when in open country and not while travelling down a road. Also without knowing how many cavalry are allocated to what unit, how can you be so sure it cannot be done?
Nathan wrote:
So the whole army would be drawn up in four lines, each line a single legion arrayed four men deep - sixteen men deep in total, with spacings between the lines? Would that be about right?
Read Polybius’ account of the legion on the march and you will answer your own question.
Nathan wrote:
I don't know - it sounds pretty simple already to me!
Anything is simple in ones mind’s eye. Have you physically tried it with coloured blocks representing every century in the army?
Nathan wrote:
Arrian does not say that there are five centurions in the first cohort. He says nothing about the number of centurions.
DeVoto translation page 115, The Expedition Against the Alani: “five centurions who {are} rear chiefs of the first cohort.”
