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The two Vegetii
#31
(05-04-2018, 07:25 AM)Renatus Wrote:  I'm wondering if 'the man entrusted with the care of the horses' is a translator's gloss on a more technical term.

I have found the Greek text and, so far as my very inadequate Greek tells me, this seems to be a pretty literal translation. However, I agree with Nathan that, in context, this sounds more like a senior groom than a high-ranking bureaucrat.
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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#32
Nathan Ross wrote:
I don't have a copy of the Theodosian Code that has these sections - could somebody perhaps check up the references?

I'm wondering if the title is given specifically, and also whether there is an established link between the stratores - who certainly had duties connected with horses - and the tribunus/comes stabuli. Jones might just be inferring the latter, perhaps?


Did a bit of digging here are the Theodosian Code titles you mention.

Book 11 TITLE 18: THOSE PERSONS WHO SHALL BE EXEMPTED FROM THE PAYMENT OF RECRUITS AND OF HORSES (QUI A PRAEBITIONE TIRONUM ET EQUORUM EXCUSENTUR)
1 Emperors Honorius and Theodosius Augustuses to Melitius, Praetorian Prefect. The necessities of an exhausted treasury demand commutation money for the purchase of recruits, but it is Our will that recruits shall not be furnished by the Illustrious prefects while they are wearing the insignia of their high rank, or after they have held the exalted prefecture. The masters of the soldiers and the counts of the household troops shall not be constrained to the performance of any such compulsory public service; for recruits must not be demanded from the resources of those men whose valor subjugates enemy captives for Our triumphs. The aforesaid penalty of damages shall not disturb the provost or the imperial chamberlain,' the palace steward, the count of the sacred imperial wardrobe, the other chamberlains, the Illustrious master of offices, the Illustrious quaestor, the Illustrious counts of the sacred imperial and private treasury, the Respectable chief of the imperial secretaries, the counts of the imperial consistory and the masters of the bureaus, or the tribunes and imperial secretaries. The necessity of the aforesaid payment shall not bind the Respectable counts of the chief physicians, the counts of the imperial stable, the curators of the palace, the scholarians, the assistant masters of the bureaus or the bureaus themselves, the counts of arrangements, the decurions,4 the master of admissions, or any others with the similar high rank of count who are associated with Our labors, or the tribunes or military provosts after proof of long continued imperial service. Either while they are holding office or after they have held office, all such persons shall have in common the due favor of Our royal generosity. No person whom We honor by the sanction of Our law shall fear that he may have to furnish recruits, horses, or a gold payment. The compulsory obligation to furnish recruits and gold shall constrain only those persons whom antiquity named honorary officials or those persons who have obtained the fasces in civil office, without having previously laid any foundations by their labors. Furthermore, of the men of military rank, the provosts and tribunes must be excluded from such privileges if they have had no experience in military camp and if they have never raged with martial bronze against the enemy.
Given on the fifteenth day before the kalends of March at Ravenna in the year of the eighth6 consulship of Honorius Augustus and the third consulship of Theodosius Augustus.-February iS,409; February 16, 412.

BOOK VI TITLE 13: COUNTS AND TRIBUNES OF THE SCHOLARIANS' (DE COMITIBUS ET TRIBUNIS SCHOLARUM)
1 Emperors Honorius and Theodosius Augustuses to Priscianus, Prefect of the City. We command that if the provosts and tribunes of the scholarians, who are entertained at the divine imperial banquets and have long since obtained the right to adore the Emperor and among whom are also numbered the tribune of the sacred imperial stable and the curator of the palace,' should obtain a countship of the first order along with the provostship and should not happen to attain a higher rank after the renunciation of their oaths of imperial service' they shall be numbered among those who were counts of Egypt or of the Diocese of Pontus, whose rank is equal. i. But if they should obtain the administration of the scholarians without the honor of any countship, We order that after their release from the imperial service they shall be numbered among those who were dukes of provinces. (Etc.)
Given on the twelfth day before the kalends of April at Constantinople in the year of the consulship of the Most Noble Lucius.- March 21, 413.

As to Stratores or Stablemasters we have

BOOK VI TITLE 31: STABLEMASTERS1 (DE STRATORIBUS)
 Emperors Valentinian and Valens Augustuses to Zosimus, Governor of New Epirus. We have dispatched a general edict throughout all the provinces that only one solidus shall be demanded by the stablemasters under title of approval of horses, and Our provincials shall know that in the horses that they offer, certain requirements as to shape, stature, and age must be observed.
I. We have also made the provincials liable to the payment of a definite number of solidi to the fisc if they do not fear to give to the stablemasters that which the stablemasters never fear to seek.
 2. The members of the office staff of Your Gravity also shall be fined one hundred pounds of silver if they know that an offense of the aforesaid kind has been committed and they do not immediately report the fact for severe judicial punishment.
Given on the thirteenth day before the kalends of July at Apollonia in the year of the consulship of Valentinian and Valens Augustuses.-June 19, 365; 368; 370; 373.

In the notes it says one of the functions of the stablemasters was the inspection of horses offered for the army. The statement about provincials liable to payments for giving to stablemasters which the stablemasters never fear to seek seems to be a reference to bribes which were a big problem according to the notes.

BOOK VIII TITLE VIII 4. The same Augustuses to Eusignius, Praetorian Prefect.
Neither under the pretext of public necessity nor as an enforcement officer of a private lawsuit shall any apparitor of Your Magnitude or of the palatine offices be dispatched to that province where he was born or where he has located his lares. I. For the chief of the office staff of the bureau of Your Excellency shall immediately pay three pounds of gold to the account of the fisc, if this statute should be violated, and the apparitor who allowed himself to be assigned to such a task shall be released from the imperial service and joined to the group of supervisors of the public post.

2. On all other persons the following penalty shall be invoked, namely, that if a member of the household guard or of the imperial bodyguard, a stablemaster, a member of the secret service, or a palatine of either office staff9 should commit such a usurpation by proceeding to the province in which he was born or where he had established his lares, he shall be removed from the official register if he was willing to be dispatched, and he shall be forced to pay a pound of gold to the account of the fisc. The assistant chiefs of the palatine office staffs and the civil accountants of the Illustrious counts and the military accountants shall pay a pound to the account of the fisc, if this statute should not be enforced.
Given on the third day before the nones of December at Milan in the year of the consulship of Emperor Designate Honorius and the Most Noble Evodius.-December 3, 386.
Just on the Theodosian Code, in the Glossary I found these 2 comments.

GLOSSARY

COUNT OF THE IMPERIAL STABLE (comes sacri stabuli), a minor count whose chief function was to provide a supply of horses for the military.
STABLEMASTER (stabularius, strator) ; the original function of this minor official was expanded in the provinces to include other duties, such as the guarding of prisoners and the inspection of horses that were presented as payment of the tax payable in horses for the army and for the support of the public post.
 Also saw in Theodosian Code that the comes sacri stabuli was a separate function to the Magister Equitum or Master of the Horse which I assume was a purely military function for his area of operations against the Alemanni on the Rhine as this reference to Valentinian’s general Jovinus shows

BOOK VII 9. The same Augustuses to Jovinus, Master of the Horse. Your Sincerity shall immediately advise dukes, as well as counts and those officers to whom the custody of the Rhine has been assigned, that the military shall not supply their pack animals either to royal envoys or to delegates. For such envoys and delegates must come with their own animals to the place from which the service of the public post proceeds. i. Your Authority, however, shall order that sufficient care be employed that they do not lack food supplies for their animals when they establish a halting place.
Given on the fourth day before the kalends of February at Reims in the year of the consulship of Lupicinus and Jovinus.-January 29, 367.
 
As to Ammianus we have a few references but he seems to classify two classes. The first example seems to be a Strator and the second example s Strator miles

Ammianus Book XXIX.3.5
Constantinius an officer of the stable (strator paucos militares equos) was sent to Sardinia to test horses to be used for the military service and because he had dared to exchange a few of them, he was stoned to death by the emperor’s order.

Ammianus Book XXX.5.19
Then the next morning, when he came out somewhat gloomy and with frowning brow, the horse that was brought to him would not allow him to mount, but reared its fore feet high in the air contrary to its usual manner; where the emperor fell into one of his innate fits of anger and, being naturally cruel, ordered the groom’s (stratoris militis) right hand, which as usual had supported him in leaping onto the animal, to be cut off. And the guiltless man would have suffered a cruel fate, had not Cerealis, the tribune in charge of the stable, at the risk of his own life postponed the terrible wrong. The Rolfe notes say Valentinian died the next day so the sentence was probably not carried out. So the tribunus stabuli saved the life of the strator miles. To be honest I don't think Ammianus liked Pannononian generals and emperors too much oftern calling them boors.

Ammianus Index of Officials
Stratores were men who were sent to the provinces to procure horses for the imperial stables
Strator Miles was one who took care of the emperor’s horse and helped him mount it.

As to Cura Palatii Ammianus mentions that Tribune Aequitius who was a relative of Valens who was Cura Palatii died at Adrianople along with Valerianus who was  tribunus stabuli

Regards
Michael Kerr
Michael Kerr
"You can conquer an empire from the back of a horse but you can't rule it from one"
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#33
(05-08-2018, 11:20 AM)Michael Kerr Wrote: Did a bit of digging here are the Theodosian Code titles you mention.

Good digging - thanks!


(05-08-2018, 11:20 AM)Michael Kerr Wrote: (comes sacri stabuli), a minor count whose chief function was to provide a supply of horses for the military.

Although there doesn't appear to be anything in the two passages from the CTh that connects this role directly with horse supply. Instead, equine business seems to be entirely in the hands of the Stratores.



(05-08-2018, 11:20 AM)Michael Kerr Wrote: And the guiltless man would have suffered a cruel fate, had not Cerealis, the tribune in charge of the stable, at the risk of his own life postponed the terrible wrong. 

So here we have a tribunus stabuli at least in a stable and in proximity to a horse!... But nothing here, I think, connects Cerealis with supplying horses to the army though.
Nathan Ross
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