03-22-2018, 07:30 AM (This post was last modified: 03-23-2018, 09:55 AM by Konstantin Ankilov.)
In his classic book Robinson gives discription of Imperial Gallic J helmet that strongly contradicts same book illustrations and other fotos of the single survivng example. He speaks of browband, many bosses, crest-holder hooks traces etc. None of those can actually be seen, and it seems like he discribes another helmet.
To add I have seen some reconstructions of this helmet that rather follow Robinson's text than actual fotos.
Does anyone have a clue if it was just a mistake on Robinson's side followed by reconstructors or we see wrong illustrations?
I think it unlikely that Robinson has made a mistake. It seems clear from the text that the details that he describes were no longer present on the helmet, although there were presumably traces of them, or else were difficult to see. It is, therefore, probable that they simply do not come out on the photographs. Remember that Robinson held a senior position in the Armouries at the Tower of London, to which the helmet was on loan, and had the opportunity of examining it first-hand.
Michael King Macdona
And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
(03-22-2018, 02:36 PM)Renatus Wrote: Robinson... had the opportunity of examining it first-hand.
That was my first thought too - presumably the evidence for the bosses, brow band etc are various small attachment holes in the metal that would not show up on a smallish black and white photograph!
(03-22-2018, 02:36 PM)Renatus Wrote: I think it unlikely that Robinson has made a mistake. It seems clear from the text that the details that he describes were no longer present on the helmet, although there were presumably traces of them, or else were difficult to see. It is, therefore, probable that they simply do not come out on the photographs. Remember that Robinson held a senior position in the Armouries at the Tower of London, to which the helmet was on loan, and had the opportunity of examining it first-hand.
Thank you for the good point. Though elements Robinson mentions are not visible even on modern fotos, it is a possibility they require thorough examination of the helm itself to be detected.
03-23-2018, 04:18 PM (This post was last modified: 03-23-2018, 04:30 PM by Caratacus.)
The IG/J in question was originally a part of the de Walden collection, willed to the National Museum of Wales. Currently, it is on display at the Roman Legionary Museum in Caerleon (Cat No.47409). The left (proper) cheek guard is a modern plastic replacement. There is evidence that some of the fitments, e.g. for attachment of the crest box, were there originally but have long since rusted away. In general, however, Robinson's description matches the object in question.
It is worth mentioning the Robinson knew of only one example of the helmet type. There are, in fact, two more. One came from the same source as the Caerleon helmet, i.e. Bregetio in Hungary, while the second (i.e. the 3rd known) comes from Italy. All three are characterised by the extreme slope and width of the brow and/or neck guard. However, the sloped brow guard is only really to be seen in the Caerleon example. The 2nd of the type is on display in the Art History Museum in Vienna but I don't know where the Italian example of currently (although, strangely, I do have an invoice number for it!)
Sorry All, somehow I have posted the pictures in the previous post! My bad! Both shots show the Caerleon helmet.
There may be a dispute as to whether one of the other helmets as an "I" or a "J". The problem is that the slope of the neck guard is a matter of opinion rather than a specific measurement. Ditto for the slope of the brow guard. To me, they both look to be of the "J" type, rather than the "I" variety. Feel free to disagree!
visne scire quod credam? credo orbes volantes exstare.
i'm having a replica made of the J type helmet and have some questions that maybe you can help me with it. I know it's an old topic, but actually this still is one of the best sources on this helmet (at least that is easily available) so worth keeping alive.
Particularly the last photo of the green corroded helmet which Caratacus posted draws my interest.
So i found photo's of an original helmet that Robinson categorised as type I, in the book called 'Römische Helme' by Marcus Junkelmann. What draws my attention is that there is a clear circular 'imprint' (rough area, looking like something had been attached there by soldering but broken off) both on top and on the inside of the helmet where the crest holder was supposed to be. It is clearly circular and right on top of the helmet, where the crest holder would have been. My question is whether such traces should be visible on the J type as well IF the crestholder on the J type would have been a similar round, pointy knob - as opposed to the often seen flat rectangular fitting on top of many roman (repro) helmets?
(Interesting on this type I helmet is also the clear 'feather-holders' on the side, just behind where the browguard would have ended. Were there no traces of such 'feather-holders' found on the type J?)
