Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Legionary Equipment During Reign of Marcus Aurelius
#1
Sword:  Ring Pommel Sword and spatha

Shield:  Square and Oval Scutum

Armor:  Segmentata (Newstead variant), Hamata (without shoulder padding), and squamata

Helmet: Roman Italic H


Are the above correct?
Reply
#2
(01-02-2018, 01:04 AM)Valerian Wrote: Are the above correct?

Looks pretty good. These two older threads have a lot of additional detail that might help:

A Legionary of the Marcomannic Wars

A Roman Legionary of the reign of Marcus Aurelius
Nathan Ross
Reply
#3
We now know that the Segmentata was not a simpler variant of the prior Corbridge variant (and this cheaper). Why did the Roman army move to the Newstead variant in the second century?
Reply
#4
I think that ring pommel swords showed up in Roman army slightly later - end of the II century.
Stefan Pop-Lazic
by a stuff demand, and personal hesitation
Reply
#5
(01-05-2018, 06:01 AM)Arahne Wrote: end of the II century.

Exact dates for weapons are fairly debatable - I'm following Simon James (Rome and the Sword, p.186), who claims that ring-pommel swords (Ringknaufschwert) first appeared early in the second century.

The example from Pevensey was found with coins of Commodus, so a general 'later 2nd century' date seems okay.
Nathan Ross
Reply
#6
(01-04-2018, 08:40 PM)Valerian Wrote: Why did the Roman army move to the Newstead variant in the second century?

Segmentata fragments and pieces from Leon, dating to the late 3rd century, appear to be both Corbridge and Newstead style. So the Newstead did not replace the earlier type(s). Why the Roman army might have used different types of segmented armour in the first place is a mystery, though!
Nathan Ross
Reply
#7
(01-07-2018, 07:05 PM)Nathan Ross Wrote:
(01-04-2018, 08:40 PM)Valerian Wrote: Why did the Roman army move to the Newstead variant in the second century?

Segmentata fragments and pieces from Leon, dating to the late 3rd century, appear to be both Corbridge and Newstead style. So the Newstead did not replace the earlier type(s). Why the Roman army might have used different types of segmented armour in the first place is a mystery, though!

Not to draw too many parallels, but modern armies also never discard older but serviceable equipment and uniforms if a replacement is not readily available AND as these types of groups of people tend to be both conservative as well as highly influenced by perceived "elite" units that tend to get the newest gear a bewildering mix of uniforms and equipment, old and new, can occur. The super hyper-organized high-tec US Army has fielded three or four "standard" types of camouflage patterns since 9/11 with the newest, MultiCam, looking remarkably similar to the old Woodland pattern that was phased out years ago. Velcro fasteners replaced plastic buttons only to be replaced again by plastic buttons! Google any set of military terms relating to the current US Army in the field and if you look closely you will see a really amazing assortment of uniforms, helmets, body armor, and even footwear! This from an organization that used the same pistol (model 1911 Colt) from 1911 to 1986, still uses the same caliber round (5.56mm) and weapons system that it adopted in 1963, still uses the same heavy machine gun (M2) it used in 1933 and still uses as its basic regular infantry sniper/designated marksman weapon a rifle (M14) initially fielded in the 50's! Better weapons systems are certainly available, yet we make due with what we are used to as for the most part they are still effective. Some elite units field exotic weapons, but most still use a version of the same old M16 that was used in the battle of Ia Drang in Vietnam in 1965.

I can certainly believe an older legionnaire sticking with his tried and true Corbridge, while a younger legionnaire would perhaps desire to have the newest style of armor, especially if that type was associated with a successful elite unit that was well known, so it does not surprise me at all that both types of armor were found together in the well organized Roman Army of the period.
Joe Balmos
Reply
#8
I would agree with Joe on the use of older pieces of kit, I dont believe any equipment had a shelf life and was regularly replaced with new. I would say war was probably the only time a new injection of kit would come into service and been made in a way that simplifies production and removes the time consuming details. This would be great if we could show a new style of armour ect could be linked to a campaign and its introduction. I myself portray a soldier 130 AD but my kit is of the time I joined the army with a odd piece up to date. For my helmet when I make it I will probably go for a older style pattern. Now as to the ring pommel sword I believe it started to come in to use last quarter 1st AD in the Bosphrus  area before spreading west into Germania. Although some pictures I have of ring pommels have Mainz/Fullum blades, but without find context  Angry so if they are origonal it is either they came in at least mid 1st AD onwards or the blades were still in use in the 2nd AD  Huh  The rivet tang ring is the clever smith using his skill to fill in a fashion trend by being able to use any standard wood hilted sword and simply remove and rivet the ring on thus saving the need to make a new sword. The amount of theses sword finds shows they must have been very popular. This also led them to go a step further and inlay the rings and gaurds with wire, using the same pattern of foliage as used on iron scabbard slides in some cases. You should also consider still using a wood hilt as well, as bog finds show that they started to bling these up with metal grips and some cases stud work on the pommel/hand gaurd.
Regards Brennivs  Big Grin
Woe Ye The Vanquished
                     Brennvs 390 BC
When you have all this why do you envy our mud huts
                     Caratacvs
Centvrio Brennivs COH I Dacorivm (Roma Antiqvia)
Reply
#9
Was the ring pommel sword a short sword or a semi-spatha? What length would it have been?

Why did it have a tapered tip instead of a pyramidal tip?
Reply
#10
Ring Pommels were retro fitted to gladivs and spatha in a roman contex. This is what I was meaning in my post   Smile  As you are looking at the reign of Aurelius, in my opinion this is when they changed and made a longer gladivs not semi spatha,  he had a hard fight in Gemania and had to counter the fact the Romans no longer faced barbarians with there own fighting techniques, but a enemy now using roman swords and adopting the fighting methods, looking at images of soldiers with sword and scabbard in the 3rd AD a ruff guess would be a blade up to 24" inchs. Most scabbards fall just bellow the knee, sorry don't have images to show at hand. Wheel chapes, peltate chapes are the most common depicted with scabbard slide. I don't know what you mean by the different tips  Huh  can you show a image.
   
This is a ring pommel from Brittania blade length 505mm width 52.4mm 2nd - 3rd AD
   
My own first quarter  2nd AD
Hope this answers some of your query  Smile
Regards Brennivs  Big Grin
Woe Ye The Vanquished
                     Brennvs 390 BC
When you have all this why do you envy our mud huts
                     Caratacvs
Centvrio Brennivs COH I Dacorivm (Roma Antiqvia)
Reply
#11
What helmet was used during the reign of Marcus Aurelius?  Imperial Italic G or H?
Russ 
Reply
#12
Further clarification to my question above. For the years 161-166(so pre-Marcommanic War), would it have been the Imperial Italic G or H?
Russ 
Reply
#13
(02-02-2018, 02:35 PM)Valerian Wrote: For the years 161-166(so pre-Marcommanic War), would it have been the Imperial Italic G or H?

The Italic G is the Hebron helmet, probably dating to the Bar Kokhba revolt of AD132-135. We have no way of knowing whether it was an old or new design at the time, but I would say it could be safely assumed to be current for the first half of the second century.

The Italic H is the Niedermörmter. One of the two found examples has an inscription to a man from Legio XXX Ulpia Victrix - this dates the helmet post Trajan, by whom this legion was founded. I have seen a suggestion that the missing pia fidelis title, granted in AD196-7, must date it prior to this, but the omission might not be significant.

So the H is more probably later 2nd century (Antonine), while the G is earlier (Hadrianic). However, Roman helmet designs might not fall into such a neat chronology as we usually like to imagine!
Nathan Ross
Reply
#14
Would the Roman military belt have had an apron at that time, or would it have already disappeared.
Russ 
Reply
#15
By this time belts probably had no apron, but probably had a metal terminal on the strap end as in the find from Lyon dated 197 AD.
   
From Roman Military Equipment. M Bishop, C Coulston
Regards Brennivs  Big Grin
Woe Ye The Vanquished
                     Brennvs 390 BC
When you have all this why do you envy our mud huts
                     Caratacvs
Centvrio Brennivs COH I Dacorivm (Roma Antiqvia)
Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  equestrian statue of marcus aurelius 174 A.D. fattkid08 4 4,096 11-01-2015, 07:08 PM
Last Post: Vindex
  Marcus Aurelius in Asia Logarythmus 4 1,858 07-22-2015, 12:15 PM
Last Post: Logarythmus
  Africa during Hadrian\'s reign ruski94 6 1,661 07-04-2011, 12:15 AM
Last Post: ruski94

Forum Jump: