Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
LEGION XVIII LYBICAE Vexillum
#1
On 2019 will be marked anniversary!  2010 years of the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest. On available to all clubs who have any interest in a possible event is one years. This is enough time for everyone (how have interest) to be prepare correct and in quality for this early Roman Imperial period.
It passed nine years of the celebration of the first 2000 years anniversary and I think now there is a possibility to conduct extensive and quality reenactment event.
We in the club also begin to prepare for this eventual event!
 I'm a big admirer of Roman history in present Germany and I have tried to studied it.
If there is an event planned at international level we are willing to introduce our selves under the Standard of one the destroyed legions there LEGION XVIII LYBICAE. I think it would be a good idea to honor this destroyed legions. A year ago we start to produce a Standart for this LEGION XVIII LYBICAE. We have appropriate equipment for this period -the end of 1 century B.C. and the beginning of 1 A.D. So we have the capability to introduce ourselves in some of the events on topic Varus and the Battle of Teutoburg Forest 9 B.C.  together with our barbarian warriors from our club which will be equipped as warriors from the German tribes .


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
       
Radostin Kolchev
(Adlocutio Cohortium)
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/
Reply
#2
To do this Roman Standart we were inspired by the reverse of the denarius coin of the legendary commander Marc Antony.
Because legions which we (in our club) currently recreating LEGION IIII SCYTHICA never was active in the Roman-German Wars (or there is no evidence of this). We decided to participate in possible events on this occasion with Legion that actually participated in this battle. I made my researches on the topic. This will be one of ours temporary metamorphosis necessary for our correct participation in eventual events.
  The information for this Legion is very scarce and I managed after long study to gather the following information.I do not claim that this publication is on a scientific level. My publication is primarily aimed at a reenactment  society.


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
Radostin Kolchev
(Adlocutio Cohortium)
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/
Reply
#3
My new introduction on the subject is my creative project:
Stripes studs suitable for Roman standards.
Over three years I progressively and methodically work on this project as well I used the completion of our new one Vexillum dedicated to the legendary legion LEG XVIII LYBICAE.
These small studs are similar to Roman Phalerae ,but in small-scale. From the limited archeology findings similar images are observed in both cases, Imperial Images together in combination with Victory and difference is in the size. So, I think that it is quite possible that some of these imperial images are given to the military flags on different occasions.
My creative waxwork on the subject.
Of course, similar round shapes studs may have been used to decorate swords, balteus,cingulum belts or horse and chariots straps.
But let's get back to our topic in our case we are talking about a historical period up to Emperor Augustus ,LEG XVIII LYBICAE was destroyed in the 9 AD in the Teutoburg Forest. So I will have to limit myself with the images of the actual existed Emperors for this Legion and other Roman commandos of this period of existence. Legio duodevigesima (Eighteenth Legion, spelled XVIII or XIIX) was probably raised by M.Antony . So Antony's profile on application is right for the case. Followed by two different profiles of August which I have made myself closed in decarative rosettes.One of the Octavian images on left another to the right.
Of course 2 great commanders from the period are not forgotten Tiberius and his brother Drusus. One of them later became Emperor of Rome and the other was the father of Emperor Claudius and General Gemanicus.Here Drusus is presented from me in full face. With these 5 images I will decorate our new Roman standart .


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
           
Radostin Kolchev
(Adlocutio Cohortium)
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/
Reply
#4
I can't praise you highly enough. This is superb. My own special interest is the Late republic through to the Julio-Claudian period so this is "right up my street". Please provide as many photographs as you can.

The Eighteenth Legion Lybica was an Antonine foundation. I think it is the minority but nonetheless a highly interesting opinion that the designation was retained by the Octavian Eighteenth after Actium. Incidentally, for other beginners, the figure depicted on the vexillum and on the pole is the goddess Victoria, the personification of Victory, bearing palm and laurel and surmounting the globe.

This early first century work is my delight, and the studs, too, are beautiful beyond belief. Made from wax - a true artist, Ave Magistre!

P.S. I haggled a little as to whether or not I ought to include this criticism, but I am rather perplexed as to why the vexillum gives the form Lybicae I.e. gen. Singular (of a Lybian) evidently not, or to or for a Libyan, ditto, or a similarly grammatically incorrect nominative, vocative or accusative plural. All references I have found allude to the Legion as merely Lybica ( I.e. feminine of Lybicus, Lybica , Lybicum, first declension adjective.

The inscription on the coin reads Marcus the Augur, Triumvir Constituted for the Restoration of the Republic. [This coin was struck] for the Eighteenth Legion named the Lybian. I fear rather that you have taken the dative phrase legioni duovigesimae Lybicae (for the eighteenth legion called the Libyan) and used LYBICAE where LYBICA should be used.

No offence is meant - I am almost sure you are right and I am wrong - but inquire out of curiosity.
PPS although enormously later, the sole surviving vexillum, of third century date, depicts Victoria.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vex...e_Arts.png
Patrick J. Gray

'' Now. Close your eyes. It's but a short step to the boat, a short pull across the river.''
''And then?''
''And then, I promise you, you'll dream a different story altogether''

From ''I, Claudius'', by J. Pulman after R. Graves.
Reply
#5
Thank you for the comments Clavdivs. I respect your opinion. Which is the thesis.From my 8 years of experience in Roman reconstructions during which we in our club have recreated 3 Roman legions,I realized that whatever we do, there are always people who are in the opposite opinion.
This is normal as long as it is within acceptable limits during criticism.Because, due to the total lack of preserved Roman standards, many interpretations are now speaking. Regarding the Vexillum from Egypt, now in the Hermitage in St.Petersburg, Russia ,it has not been proven to be a military stand ,it is possible that it have another purpose.
Regarding the inscriptions when we created our legion IIII SCYTHICAE  we inscribed it SCYTHICA according to your reasoning theory. Of course some colleagues accused us of writing it wrong because there is no such inscription by archaeological finds Smile. Though I have a great deal of archeological information about the varied information on the abbreviated varieties of SCYTHICAE  . But let's go back to the topic ,the inscription "LYBICAE" is the only one preserved with the dedication of the legion XVIII LYBICAE   ,not to mention the figures where there is another option XIIX. So, in my view, Roman antique numismatics is enough archeological material (in this case) to comply with at this stage where the information very, very scarce. Everything else is a statement of theory and thesis.
Radostin Kolchev
(Adlocutio Cohortium)
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/
Reply
#6
An answer worthy of a scholar and a gentleman   Smile. Once again, please remember that though as you say two reenactors may differ, they differ as friends and an interpretation difference does not make your work any less wonderful. As I say, the first century BCE and the first half of CE is my own period and your interpretation is masterful and I look forward keenly to all your photographs
Patrick J. Gray

'' Now. Close your eyes. It's but a short step to the boat, a short pull across the river.''
''And then?''
''And then, I promise you, you'll dream a different story altogether''

From ''I, Claudius'', by J. Pulman after R. Graves.
Reply
#7
The stripes pendants are my old project that is very suitable for such a case and I wanted to realize.In Germania campaigns take an active part Augustus' generals Drusus (13-9 BC) and Tiberius (8 BC and 4-5 BC). In those years, the eighteenth (XVIII)legion was probably based at Xanten or Oberaden/Haltern. In 5, the conquest was completed and Augustus sent Publius Quinctilius Varus to rule the area as a governor, impose tribute and establish civil rule.
In 6 CE, Tiberius was to lead at least eight legions (VIII Augusta  from Pannonia, XV Apollinaris and XX Valeria Victrix from Illyricum, XXI Rapax from Raetia, XIII Gemina, XIV Gemina and XVI Gallica from Germania Superior and an unknown unit) against king Maroboduus of the Marcomanni in Czechia; at the same time, I Germanica, V Alaudae, XVII, XVIII and XIX were to move against Czechia as well, attacking it along the Elbe. It was to be the most grandiose operation that was ever conducted by a Roman army, but a rebellion in Pannonia obstructed its execution.Detailed information on the subject here. 
 http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php...evolt.html
Cenotaph of Marcus Caelius
It took three years to suppress the revolt. In these years, the Eighteenth was still with Varus. In September 9, however, the Cheruscan leader Arminius, one of Rome's most loyal allies, turned himself against the governor.
Whatever its origins - Lentulian, Pompeian, Caesarian, Octavian, Antonian -  the Eighteenth (XVIII) was at some stage (c.15 BC ?) sent to the Rhine, together with XVI Gallica and the seventeenth legion. It is possible, but again hypothetical, that the Eighteenth had been stationed in Aquitania between the battle off Actium and the transfer.
http://www.livius.org/articles/legion/legio-xviii/


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
       

.bmp   12we.bmp (Size: 266.13 KB / Downloads: 1)
Radostin Kolchev
(Adlocutio Cohortium)
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/
Reply
#8
This is an excerpt from the TV series I Claudius .How well Robert Graves said 42 years ago!He has shown in a wonderful way the attitude of these two generals to their legions exactly from this period before year 9 A.D.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM0wZ3qy...e=youtu.be
I got these valuable books “THE BATTLE THAT STOPPED ROME” by  Peter S. Wells and “TEUTOBURG FOREST AD 9” by MICHAEL MCNALLY. The theme there is affected very detailed.
 This is an excerpt from the moment when the survivor report in front of Augustus  the terrible news of the unfortunate fate of the 3 Roman Lions in the far German Limes-XVII,XVIII and XIX.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5FfqADDqOE


Attached Files
.bmp   12e.bmp (Size: 187.12 KB / Downloads: 2)
.bmp   de3.bmp (Size: 242.72 KB / Downloads: 1)
Radostin Kolchev
(Adlocutio Cohortium)
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/
Reply
#9
I Claudius is wonderful and the books look most interesting -- keep up the good work!
Patrick J. Gray

'' Now. Close your eyes. It's but a short step to the boat, a short pull across the river.''
''And then?''
''And then, I promise you, you'll dream a different story altogether''

From ''I, Claudius'', by J. Pulman after R. Graves.
Reply
#10
From my point of view, the same engravers who worked in Imperial coin workshops engraved part of these images. Some of the artifacts appear to be of lower quality and may have been produced in local workshops near to the Roman Limes.
These Stripes studs (which are currently my topic) are replicas of existing studs but dedicated to other imperial images. I guess that these originals from Vindonissa-Museum are of Octavian Augustus and down to the left Imp. Trajan (on the black-and-white photo).

This one profile here looks very much like Hadrianus to me. The bearded ,the nose are his.

This one here is 100% Imp.Galba. Although for this artifact I do not have archaeological data from a scientific publication.
Some of them have similarities with the Flavius family.So I think that in antiquity there was similar applications of the other Roman Emperors,used by the legionnaires as small phalerae  or decorations for suspension  on  various objects that emphasize their devotion to the Emperor.Regarding  the images which I have recreated on such small appliqués (of emperors and generals), I have no evidence for the existence but this is my creative solutions.
The dimensions I have used are consistent with the scientific publications of similar finds-applications.


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
               

.bmp   Book Katalog_der_Militaria_aus_Vindonissa_Mil.bmp (Size: 297.43 KB / Downloads: 0)
.bmp   От унгарската книга Militaria.bmp (Size: 496.43 KB / Downloads: 0)
Radostin Kolchev
(Adlocutio Cohortium)
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/
Reply
#11
Those are beautiful standards. Hats off!
Reply
#12
There are a number of confirmations for stripes studs using in decoration of Roman standarts stripes.


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
               
Radostin Kolchev
(Adlocutio Cohortium)
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/
Reply
#13
The idea of a standart with The figure,symbols of Victory/Nike on the top of vexillum occurs with us 7 years ago but just now we have found the occasion to use it for this purpose. Here is depiction of Victory on military Standard from Trajan's column as well as from other monuments..
More information on our creative solution here:
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/images/ro...y-Nike.pdf


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
       
Radostin Kolchev
(Adlocutio Cohortium)
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/
Reply
#14
Many thanks - it is a pleasure to see such constant reference to original sources.
Patrick J. Gray

'' Now. Close your eyes. It's but a short step to the boat, a short pull across the river.''
''And then?''
''And then, I promise you, you'll dream a different story altogether''

From ''I, Claudius'', by J. Pulman after R. Graves.
Reply
#15
The sign of the LEG XVIII LYBICAE is unknown, so we used Victory as an option. Given that Victoria has been used for these purposes, such as the Vexillum from Egypt, now in the Hermitage in St.Petersburg, Russia.
In all our club Vexilla we used imitation of Metal thread embroidery technology.
https://www.facebook.com/elena.che.38/vi...913239898/


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
Radostin Kolchev
(Adlocutio Cohortium)
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/
Reply


Forum Jump: