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Real Deal Spolas
Well,  As for alum tawing, even if they had it, it is unsuitable for making leather armour; it makes it very soft, hygroscopic, and the alum will wash out given the chance.  As for white leather created as part of the tanning process --well maybe!  But, just the upper is white on that shoe, perhaps it is alum tawed; the tough sole is made of a darker leather / hide.  If there was a layer of white leather over some kind of sealed hide, it would need to be sewn to the lower layers to be integral, and that isn't always apparent in depictions.  If it is possible to bake hide and then oil it that is wonderful, but does it really make it water resistant / proof?  Also, it seems like some of the depictions have white pigment applied to the fresco to emphasize the color.  I suspect that it was some kind of finish applied to the leather (pure supposition).  White pigments remaining on ancient statues exposed to the elements must have had some kind of waterproof binder.. As white lead was a flexible and water resistant pigment when ground in a drying oil, perhaps that was used on the exterior of the armour. It would essentially be oil paint.  Drying oils were applied as varnishes to art to protect it, so it would seem possible that it could have been the paint used on outside statues and other items too.  Just my two cents.


Ancient white lead and leather:

https://books.google.com/books?id=2i68AA...er&f=false

More on white lead and it being waterproof, flexible:
https://books.google.com/books?id=Wd41AQ...ek&f=false

The birth of patent leather


Yet another legal patent was awarded in 1854. This listed the varnish ingredients as including oil, amber, Prussian blue (Fe7(CN)18 and described as the first modern synthetic pigment), litharge (a natural mineral form of lead (II) oxide), white lead, ochre, whiting (powdered and washed white chalk), asphalt and copal (resin from the copal tree). During these early days of patent leather production, many tanners kept the finer details of their coatings a closely guarded secret, so even the substances listed in patent applications may well have been falsified in order to confuse their business competitors. For many decades, linseed oil and Prussian blue dye seem to have been the basis of most patent leather finishes. Using fine, black leather, the tanner applied as many as 15 coats of varnish, allowing the substrate to dry each time in the sun or in gentle heat from an oven. The aim was to achieve a finish that was smooth, hard, and also somewhat elastic, to avoid the leather cracking when in use.

https://www.satra.com/bulletin/article.php?id=1787

Ah...  Here we are:
https://chestofbooks.com/reference/Henle...ather.html
I'd be using titanium white instead...  Sad

(07-20-2019, 06:43 PM)Crispianus Wrote:
(07-19-2019, 05:55 PM)Feinman Wrote: I've stopped this project, because I now feel that the spolas was likely made from layers of leather, perhaps water-hardened, instead of oiled and waxed hides..  Rawhide is still too susceptible to moisture, even wrinkling with humidity in the air, though it could be used for scale armour if sealed properly.  I am going to suggest something controversial..  I suspect that the white color seen on what could be spolioi in depictions might actually be lead white ground in oil.  Here's why:  The other white pigments available at the time are too powdery --they would crumble right off the leather, and they don't have the covering power of white lead, as well as being extremely susceptible to moisture.  Painted designs wouldn't adhere properly etc.

Have you thought about baking rawhide to remove excess moisture and then sealing it?

I'm also of the opinion that the pteurges could be made by tablet weave from suitably robust twine and I suspect would hang better...

I think the spolas could be covered with a white leather, tawed and even tanned leather can be naturally white or close to it.

A White Hellenistic shoe from Egypt (allegedly)

https://collections.mfa.org/objects/164463

Wink

To me it looks like alum tawing.
http://www.raisedheels.com/images/Amanda/damenschuh.jpg
http://www.raisedheels.com/blog/?p=1339
"The shoes were closed, but considering the weight of the leather, I whipped in a heel stiffener and a toe stiffener, to ensure a greater longevity. The extant pieces were likely made with alum-tawed calf, which was more robust than the leather used here. I was uncertain of the origin of the tanning, but though it seemed to be chrome-tanned, it seemed to have several qualities of alum-tawed leather in that it did not have the typical “white-blue” sheen that most white alum-tawed leathers can take on."

Qui sepeliunt capita sua in terra, deos volantes non videbunt.
--Flavius Flav 
Reply


Messages In This Thread
Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 11-25-2017, 01:08 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Dan Howard - 11-25-2017, 10:16 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 11-25-2017, 02:14 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Creon01 - 11-25-2017, 03:01 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 11-25-2017, 04:18 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Creon01 - 11-25-2017, 04:58 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 11-25-2017, 05:43 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Dan Howard - 11-25-2017, 09:37 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 11-26-2017, 04:00 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-01-2017, 03:35 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-01-2017, 04:37 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-03-2017, 01:41 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-03-2017, 02:59 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-03-2017, 04:08 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-04-2017, 10:45 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Robert Vermaat - 12-04-2017, 11:06 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-04-2017, 11:20 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-04-2017, 12:27 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Dan Howard - 12-04-2017, 10:04 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-05-2017, 01:03 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Creon01 - 12-05-2017, 02:51 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-06-2017, 03:57 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-08-2017, 01:35 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-08-2017, 02:59 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-09-2017, 04:52 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-10-2017, 01:59 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-11-2017, 04:29 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-11-2017, 05:41 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-12-2017, 01:41 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-12-2017, 04:53 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-12-2017, 06:41 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-13-2017, 01:42 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-14-2017, 02:04 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-14-2017, 03:22 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-14-2017, 05:21 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-16-2017, 08:09 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-18-2017, 03:11 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-18-2017, 04:57 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-19-2017, 12:49 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-19-2017, 03:05 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-20-2017, 05:00 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-21-2017, 04:06 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-21-2017, 05:45 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 12-22-2017, 10:00 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-22-2017, 10:18 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-23-2017, 05:15 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-23-2017, 07:16 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-26-2017, 02:28 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-26-2017, 04:19 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 12-26-2017, 05:47 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-27-2017, 04:08 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-28-2017, 08:50 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-29-2017, 12:32 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 12-29-2017, 01:28 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-29-2017, 03:52 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 12-29-2017, 05:57 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-29-2017, 06:02 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 12-29-2017, 07:09 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-31-2017, 04:48 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-31-2017, 01:56 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 12-31-2017, 03:38 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Dan Howard - 01-01-2018, 12:26 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 01-01-2018, 02:06 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 01-01-2018, 04:13 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 01-01-2018, 10:01 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 01-06-2018, 02:48 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 01-10-2018, 01:45 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 01-10-2018, 12:34 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 01-15-2018, 01:42 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 01-15-2018, 06:28 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 01-16-2018, 02:09 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 01-16-2018, 02:20 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 01-19-2018, 08:44 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 01-19-2018, 09:10 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 01-21-2018, 10:41 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 01-22-2018, 02:20 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 01-22-2018, 02:13 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Athena Areias - 01-22-2018, 03:59 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 01-22-2018, 06:41 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 01-22-2018, 05:15 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 01-22-2018, 08:31 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 01-22-2018, 08:38 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 01-22-2018, 09:35 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 01-23-2018, 11:41 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 01-24-2018, 12:06 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 01-24-2018, 12:24 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 01-30-2018, 01:21 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 02-01-2018, 04:32 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 02-01-2018, 11:10 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 02-02-2018, 01:57 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 02-02-2018, 02:17 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 02-02-2018, 05:49 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Clavdivs - 02-02-2018, 07:24 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 02-02-2018, 09:34 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 02-06-2018, 03:33 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Dan Howard - 02-07-2018, 08:28 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 02-13-2018, 02:05 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 02-22-2018, 03:21 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 03-02-2018, 08:42 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 03-13-2018, 03:34 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 03-14-2018, 03:10 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 03-21-2018, 08:38 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 03-28-2018, 01:30 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 04-11-2018, 04:31 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Caradepato - 04-20-2018, 01:22 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 04-20-2018, 07:57 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Jack Svendsen - 05-05-2018, 01:48 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 05-08-2018, 01:53 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 08-13-2018, 09:46 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Creon01 - 08-13-2018, 10:42 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-29-2018, 08:06 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 07-19-2019, 05:55 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Crispianus - 07-20-2019, 06:43 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Dan Howard - 07-20-2019, 11:44 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 07-20-2019, 01:22 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 07-20-2019, 08:20 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Crispianus - 07-21-2019, 11:04 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Creon01 - 07-22-2019, 03:31 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Crispianus - 07-22-2019, 09:35 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Dan Howard - 07-23-2019, 01:20 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 07-23-2019, 03:59 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Dan D'Silva - 07-23-2019, 09:54 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 07-24-2019, 11:32 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 07-26-2019, 03:40 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Sean Manning - 07-27-2019, 09:04 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Dan Howard - 07-27-2019, 09:43 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 07-27-2019, 01:22 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Sean Manning - 07-27-2019, 01:58 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 07-27-2019, 03:06 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Sean Manning - 07-28-2019, 05:17 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 07-27-2019, 04:35 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Dan Howard - 07-28-2019, 12:24 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 07-28-2019, 12:37 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Crispianus - 07-28-2019, 09:39 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 07-28-2019, 04:02 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 07-28-2019, 05:09 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Crispianus - 07-28-2019, 07:25 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Crispianus - 07-30-2019, 07:23 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 07-28-2019, 06:19 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 07-30-2019, 12:32 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 07-30-2019, 06:55 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Crispianus - 07-31-2019, 02:23 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 07-31-2019, 03:19 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Crispianus - 08-01-2019, 08:45 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-01-2019, 03:18 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Crispianus - 08-08-2019, 01:07 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-08-2019, 05:07 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-13-2019, 03:31 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-13-2019, 04:49 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-13-2019, 11:15 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Dan Howard - 08-13-2019, 11:32 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-13-2019, 11:53 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-14-2019, 01:02 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Dan Howard - 08-14-2019, 01:55 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-14-2019, 03:13 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-15-2019, 01:06 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Crispianus - 08-15-2019, 07:01 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-15-2019, 03:35 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-17-2019, 02:48 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-21-2019, 02:35 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-23-2019, 03:22 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-24-2019, 01:20 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Crispianus - 08-24-2019, 07:26 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-24-2019, 01:27 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-25-2019, 04:13 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-25-2019, 07:29 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Euparkeria - 08-25-2019, 08:15 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-26-2019, 05:16 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-29-2019, 01:29 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-03-2019, 01:20 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-05-2019, 01:29 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-05-2019, 03:33 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Crispianus - 09-05-2019, 07:18 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-05-2019, 01:08 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-06-2019, 04:18 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-08-2019, 10:04 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-12-2019, 01:22 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-18-2019, 01:30 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-18-2019, 03:07 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Damianus Albus - 09-18-2019, 06:12 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-18-2019, 06:55 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-23-2019, 07:08 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Dan Howard - 09-23-2019, 11:30 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-24-2019, 12:29 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-24-2019, 02:00 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-27-2019, 02:16 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-28-2019, 12:59 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-29-2019, 03:51 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-30-2019, 05:36 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Crispianus - 09-30-2019, 08:49 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 09-30-2019, 06:30 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 10-03-2019, 03:05 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 10-14-2019, 04:01 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 10-15-2019, 04:53 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 10-15-2019, 01:39 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 10-21-2019, 03:51 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 10-22-2019, 02:57 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 10-29-2019, 01:44 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Crispianus - 10-29-2019, 09:43 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 10-30-2019, 01:31 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 11-06-2019, 11:58 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 11-13-2019, 03:50 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 11-14-2019, 05:22 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 11-18-2019, 05:26 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 11-19-2019, 06:16 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 11-28-2019, 12:36 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 11-29-2019, 03:11 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-05-2019, 07:16 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-10-2019, 07:29 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-12-2019, 04:04 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-18-2019, 11:02 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-24-2019, 05:27 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 12-26-2019, 02:25 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 01-02-2020, 09:53 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 01-12-2020, 03:31 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by rx7fc - 02-29-2020, 08:43 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 03-01-2020, 10:47 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by rx7fc - 03-02-2020, 12:27 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 03-02-2020, 12:35 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by rx7fc - 03-04-2020, 05:12 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Dan D'Silva - 03-05-2020, 11:05 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 03-05-2020, 04:19 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Dan Howard - 03-05-2020, 09:29 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 03-06-2020, 02:14 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by rx7fc - 03-06-2020, 02:44 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Athena Areias - 03-06-2020, 02:52 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 03-06-2020, 03:47 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by czaczaja - 07-08-2021, 06:29 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-07-2021, 11:21 PM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by czaczaja - 08-08-2021, 09:43 AM
RE: Real Deal Spolas - by Feinman - 08-08-2021, 04:26 PM

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