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Figure 8 shields
#16
Where have I ever relied solely on Homer for evidence? I always give multiple pieces of evidence that point to the same thing.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#17
Here's a link to one the oldest known versions of any part of Homer's Odyssey, ca. 285–250 B.C.

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/09.182.50/

Note what the site states, "This is the first early Ptolemaic fragment of the Odyssey ever discovered. It contains three lines from Book 20 that do not occur in the standard text preserved today and is a physical testimony to the fact that local variations of this famous work existed in the third century B.C."
Joe Balmos
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#18
So? If a text says something that can be corroborated with other evidence then it is a valid source for that topic. Who originally wrote it is irrelevant. People thought that boars tusk helmets were a figment of the author's imagination until they started turning up in grave sites.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#19
Sure, if we have several ancient authors agreeing that leads to more certainty AND if we have contemporaneous artistic depictions AND find an artifact in situ we can be more sure, but as you know that's pretty rare. Funny that you mention the BTH as that's exactly what I use in the Penn Museum to illustrate your point regarding corroboration. We have artifactual evidence, written references (Homer) and more than a few artistic depictions in several media not just pottery. That's a historic slam-dunk....and rare.
Joe Balmos
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#20
You mean like the apparent staples on Todd's illustration, the description of them in the Iliad, and the physical staples found at Knossos?
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#21
I would also add that research is always ongoing as new finds appear, old finds are re-assessed and especially as new technologies become more available and used. They found an undiscovered bronze age burial site in Greece just last year in a place known to archaeologists for decades.

Reassessments of current finds can also dramatically change our understanding of what we are looking at.

It has always amazed me that they missed the famous Ice-Man Ötzi's manner of death for about ten years as the technology used to discover what happened to him was already available! Far from simply freezing to death alone on a mountaintop, he went out like a warrior fighting with a comrade at his side.

"In 2001 X-rays and a CT scan revealed that Ötzi had an arrowhead lodged in his left shoulder when he died,[60] and a matching small tear on his coat.[61] The discovery of the arrowhead prompted researchers to theorize Ötzi died of blood loss from the wound, which would probably have been fatal even if modern medical techniques had been available.[62] Further research found that the arrow's shaft had been removed before death, and close examination of the body found bruises and cuts to the hands, wrists and chest and cerebral trauma indicative of a blow to the head. One of the cuts was to the base of his thumb that reached down to the bone but had no time to heal before his death. Currently, it is believed that the cause of death was a blow to the head, but researchers are unsure of what inflicted the fatal injury.[63]

Recent DNA analyses claim they revealed traces of blood from at least four other people on his gear: one from his knife, two from the same arrowhead, and a fourth from his coat.[64][65] Interpretations of these findings were that Ötzi killed two people with the same arrow, and was able to retrieve it on both occasions, and the blood on his coat was from a wounded comrade he may have carried over his back.[61] Ötzi's posture in death (frozen body, face down, left arm bent across the chest) could support a theory that before death occurred and rigor mortis set in, the Iceman was turned onto his stomach in the effort to remove the arrow shaft.[66]"

(07-13-2017, 10:34 PM)Dan Howard Wrote: You mean like the apparent staples on Todd's illustration, the description of them in the Iliad, and the physical staples found at Knossos?
Oh I don't doubt the staples idea at all.

Why not staples AND glue?
Joe Balmos
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#22
Just as soon as you turn up evidence for glued Greek shields or armour.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#23
Although I don't have a problem with the shield staples idea, the evidence is not as clear as the BTH and I can see room for alternate points of view. When we see a boar tusk helmet in art and look at the artifacts it's pretty clear what they are. Plus, they are copper staples, not very sexy to discuss in a museum.

(07-13-2017, 11:01 PM)Dan Howard Wrote: Just as soon as you turn up evidence for glued Greek shields or armour.
As you know I AM always looking lol. 

The nearest I came was when the Turkish gov't sent a large group of objects to the Penn Museum last year from their decades long Gordian dig for a wonderful exhibition. I was hoping that it would include some of the hundreds of linen artifacts I know for certain are in storage awaiting examination from the period before and just after Alexander's time. As the Penn Museum has one of the best linen conservators in the world, Molly Gleeson, and she has the technology available to find traces of glue specifically in linen due her work primarily with Mummies I was confident that we'd find something. I was even in contact with a Turkish archaeologist at the Gordian museum pushing him to include the rumored pieces of "linothorax" they have for examination. 

Unfortunately no linen came over.

Maybe one day the Turks will publish a good report on the linen, but I'm not holding my breath as they are mad at the US AND Germany at the moment.
Joe Balmos
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