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NightHunter24 · 08-13-2003, 07:29 AM

Avete Omnes! 
 
Being a typical New Yorker and all, I'm used to seeing the police, fire, and emts work in conjunction very frequently. I was seeing our fire fighters in action at a place near my house. I was wondering on how the ancient Romans ( or more specifically the city of Rome)might cope with issues such as fires. I am aware that they had a fire brigade. I don't know if I'm in the right forum for this but here goes: 
 
How were the fire brigades at Rome organized? 
 
Did the fire brigades fall under the army or were they a civilian entity? 
 
Salve.

rekirts · 08-13-2003, 10:16 AM

Found this on Encyclopedia.com: 
 
"Ancient Rome is known to have had a fire department consisting by the 1st cent. of approximately 7,000 paid firefighters. These fire brigades not only responded to and fought fires, but also patrolled the streets with the authority to impose corporal punishment upon those who violated fire-prevention codes. The inventor Ctesibius of Alexandria devised the first known fire pump c.200 BC but the idea was lost until the fire pump was reinvented about AD 1500." 
 
Apparently there is a professor in the Department of Classics, Randolph-Macon College, Gregory Neil Daugherty, who has given lectures on this topic. When I get home, I'll try emailing him and see if I get a response. 
 
Wendy

NightHunter24 · 08-13-2003, 10:42 AM

Hey Wendy thanks....I think I'll start doing a little research of my own. Interesting...hmmmm....

JRSCline · 08-13-2003, 11:29 AM

You are thinking of the "vigiles," who were a combination of police and fire brigade, as needed. They were paramilitary, rather than military per se. 
 
From the city of Rome's freed slaves, Augustus recruited seven 1000-man cohorts of Vigiles in 6 CE. There was no precedent for such an organized force, although under the Republic private wealthy citizens had maintained their own brigades of slave firefighters whom they would hire out for a (presumably hefty) fee, and Augustus himself had maintained a 600-man corps of state-funded slave firemen as early as 22 BCE. 
 
The Vigiles, together with the 3,000 men of the three Urban Cohorts, made a police force of 10,000 men for a city of let's say 750,000. That's 1:75, not a bad ratio for policing. 
 
The Vigiles were commanded by the Praefectus Vigilum, a man of equestrian rank appointed by the Emperor. There is no epigraphic evidence suggesting that the prefect held his command longer than 5 years, but neither is there evidence to suggest a mandatory "term of office." Most likely, the prefect served until he was promoted elsewhere, replaced at the whim of the Emperor, or retired. 
 
As for fire stations, there is no evidence of public edifices until the 2nd c. CE, although that does not rule out their existence prior to that date. The stations were called "aediculae," sing "aedicula." There seems to have been, based on dedicationary inscriptions, one century per aedicula. Rome was divided into "regiones," and each region was the responsibility of one cohort of Vigiles. 
 
Try getting this from your local library through Inter Library Loan: 
 
Baillie Reynolds, P.K. The Vigiles of Imperial Rome, Oxford Univ. Press, 1926. 
 
My source for all this is the aforementioned author. Findings since then may have altered some of the facts above, but for what it's worth, I hope my summary is helpful to you. 
 
If you are really serious about this subject, as in doing an academic paper or something like that, I have a copy of Reynolds, and I could xerox you another. $30 would cover my costs, assuming you are from the States. 
 
Cheers, 
Jenny

NightHunter24 · 08-13-2003, 11:48 AM

Yes the VIGILES! *slaps his forehead* 
 
Thanks for the info Jenny. And I'll think about the Reynolds thing. Sounds like a good idea.

**richsc** · 08-13-2003, 12:36 PM

Salve NightHunter and welcome to RCT. It was Crassus I believe who was accused of setting fires to insula and having his fire brigades standing by while he negotiated a price with the owner.

NightHunter24 · 08-13-2003, 02:18 PM

Thanks Richsc. Wow talkin about playing with people's lives. Was this Crassus, Julius Caesar's contemporary?

12-12-2003, 02:27 PM

if anyone has any information/pictures of the ancient roman fire engine and its structure, pleeeaaasse write it here, or email it to me at [email protected] . i would really appreciate it!!

**richsc** · 12-12-2003, 07:51 PM

Salve K Las, I have no idea if there were any pump devices in Rome. I thought the vigiles carried hemp mats for the purpose of suffocating fires, and no doubt there were buckets. 
 
Crassus was one of G Julius Caesar's contemporaries, as he was one of the original triumvirate with Caesar and Pompey. Richest man in Rome, which was saying something, and had his own fire crews. 
 
Here's an image of Ctesibius' pump 
 
alexandrias.tripod.com/ctesibius.htm 
 
www.bbc.co.uk/history/his...bius.shtml Legio XX 
Caupona AsellinaeEdited by: <A HREF=http://pub27.ezboard.com/bromancivtalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=richsc>Richsc</A> at: 12/12/03 9:05 pm

aitor iriarte · 12-13-2003, 05:39 AM

Hi K, 
 
I've just e-mailed you a photo of the detached components of a Roman 'Ctesibius' pump. I am not an expert on the subject but I could give you some more details if you want. 
 
Aitor

12-14-2003, 12:29 PM

if you wouldnt mind, i would love more details. 
 
i appreciate your help guys...you are the best!!! 
you have helped me so much!! 
 
love, 
kayla

aitor iriarte · 12-14-2003, 01:57 PM

Kayla, 
It's to help mutually and to learn one from another why we are at this forum 
Give me some days and I'll scan some diagrams (I've got no more photos, sorry!) for you. 
 
Aitor

12-15-2003, 02:12 PM

I doubt that Crassus ever set fires. They happened frequently enough without encouragement. Plus, arson was by far the most severe crime on theRoman books, and carried the most severe punishments (and the Romans had some lulus.) Had he been seriously suspected of arson, his political rivals would surely have used it against him. They accused him of everything else.

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