correct Location for Leg IIIG XVIFF and XIIF

[jonas2017-1]

Hello this is my first thread in this Forum,so i will say hello to all.
According to my geographical researches over the last years, i think that the "normal" used and suggested Place for the Legions mentioned above,called >Raphanea> is not the Place Baarin, North west of Homs, it was 200km farther South.
Indicated with a Roman City with neary the same Name and Inscriptions from around 170 AD.  Maybe the XVI FF was involved in  some extensive infrastructural and Building Projects in this Region.
Together with the LEG IIICyr stationed in Bostra it saved the Limes Orientalis along the Via Nova Trajana and Via Diocletiana.

If there are some Guests or Forum Members, who have also Informations to a Legions Base south of Damaskus, to Routes and Places of this Legions between the 1st and 3rd Cen. AD,  please let us know.
Otherwise if anyone have clear indications (inscriptions ...) for the Baarin/Zor Baarin Place please write us also.


Many thanks and greetings from Germany

[Nathan Ross]

>Raphanea> is not the Place Baarin, North west of Homs, it was 200km farther South... with neary the same Name and Inscriptions from around 170 AD.  Maybe the XVI FF was involved in  some extensive infrastructural and Building Projects in this Region... if anyone have clear indications (inscriptions ...) for the Baarin/Zor Baarin Place please write us also.

Hi Jonas

As far as I know, the locations of legions in Syria are mainly unknown, perhaps because they were often billeted in cities. We know that III Gallica was based at Raphanea (Syrian Rafniye) in AD217. I don't know if XVI and XII were ever located there.

Do you have coordinates for 'Zor Baarin'? I can't find it on the map.

There's an Antonine inscription (CIL 03, 200) to XVI FF at Wadi Souk Barada (Abila), indicating that a detachment of the legion worked on repairing a road there.

A pair of inscriptions from Hierapolis record retired primipilares of XII Fulminata - one of them the famous Velius Salvius Rufus.

Beyond that I cant find much conclusive inscriptional evidence from Syria. The usual suggestion, I think, is that these legions were based at Samosata and Melitene.

[jonas2017-1]

I think the real Basecamp was on Phaena (el musmije) or nearby, at the northern End of the Lejja (Trachonitis). Together with this place (Trachonitis) is also mentioned Abila Lysanias (Souk Wadi Barada) (according plinius List of the Dekapolis).

There must be a real raphanea in the 4th Century AD (mentioned as a Member within the conzil of nicea) ,according to the TAVO or several books, this Raphanea is there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baarin), but i have never seen some remains from this place, from the hellenic or Roman time. Also i can`t find any inscriptions nearby from the mentioned Legions. There is just a inscription about a Victory in Emessa wich mentions the IIIGal.
Other Books discribe a place, called "Rafnije" on the Euphrat River as the Legions Base Camp. I dont know exactly where it is, but i can`t believe this.

According to Plinius 75 AD there is a place with the same Name together, with all hellenistic Polis' ,wich Plinius Sec. called also "Raphanea".

This i have identified with Phaena and there are also the inscriptions within a so called Praetorium, later used as a church (as a seat of a Bishop) (Titular see of Phaenesiensis within the archdiocese of Bostra).
Additionally it fits perfect to plinus' description "Rhaphanam,omnia in arabiam recedentia". Along the Roman road to Bostra through the stony lejja there are also Inscriptions from the Leg IIII Skyt.
The same Legions from the Praetorium (170AD) in Phaena ( IIIGAL XVIFF )are mentioned in inscriptions in the City nearby called Aere ,today Es sanamain on the mainstreet between Damask and Neve in Golan. The Position of the whole Area is perfect for a strategic Base Camp of a Legion. From North to south ,along the Via Nova Trajana, from East to west along the most used Connection between the mediterranian Sea over Caesarea Phillipi Banias or Sebaste (Roman Bridge over the Jordan) to the Desert of Coile Syria. There is also a place in old maps called "Danaba-Dennaba" near this area.

I think the Place Musmije (Phaena) fits perfect for the Legions Base Camp, but in the Literature we can find only the Raphanea North-west of Homs. ;-( , or on the Euphrat River ,which one is the right one ?? ;-)

[Nathan Ross]

this Raphanea is there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baarin), but i have never seen some remains from this place, from the hellenic or Roman time. Also i can`t find any inscriptions nearby from the mentioned Legions.

I'm not sure I understand - are you suggesting that Baarin is the Roman Raphanea, or something else? There was a report back in 2009 of a Roman site there - but it seems to have been more probably an auxiliary fort, not a legion site.

I think the Place Musmije (Phaena) fits perfect for the Legions Base Camp, but in the Literature we can find only the Raphanea North-west of Homs. ;-( , or on the Euphrat River ,which one is the right one ?? ;-)

Hmm - there are Roman ruins there (presuming this is the place you mean?), and it's possible that it was a legion camp. But I think we'd need some more definite evidence before we started assigning particular legions to particular places!

[jonas2017-1]

at first, for the Baarin Site "Raphanea", i suggest just from my Research that this is not the Raphanea mentioned as the Legions Base Place.
But for Phaena there are some evidence. (33.129167, 36.393889 (Elmismyah)) W.M.Thomson New York 1886 see attachment)
There are also some smaller castells in the area around, for instance buraq in the east of Phaena, or the best visible on on the Eastern Hauran flank (88-86m)
maybe everyone have additional informations about the Area wich can substantiate my Suggestion.

greetings from Germany