shoulder doubling

[MarcusMemmiusFalco]

Greetings,

Can someone tell me if the mail shirts worn by legionarries in the first half of the second century AD still had shoulder doubling. Or had this type already been replaced by a simpler mailshirt?

And until what time was the riveted mail worn and when was it replaced by butted mail?

Thanks a lot in advance,
Cheers,
Marcus Memmius

[M. Demetrius]

I'm having a heckuva time getting the clasp/rivet/washer assembly to work on the closure "dragons" on my doubler. Any particular secrets to this? I've tried:

Using the Albion cingulum studs as giant rivets. They simply bend over, and don't peen worth a hoot, even after bright red hot annealing. :x

R. Leahy brass, round head rivets through the holes left in the Albion studs when the post finally breaks out of the disk (makes a pretty nice washer, though) They bend, also, and my copper rivets aren't long enough.

So I tried sawing a slot in the shaft of the rivet, spreading the ends something like a Carter Key. Well, partial success, but kinda funky. I don't trust those tiny slivers of brass to last long. :?

I've spent about 4 hours total and it's not done. Planned to wear this tomorrow morning. Didn't want to use brass stove bolts, but might have to just to fill the role in the skit. I know, the audience can't see it. But I can, and it bugs me. :oops:

I know some of you must have done this, so please guide me. The leather looks pretty good, now that it's on, but the doubler won't stay put without the attaching hook. Might pin it down with extra rings, but that's just a stopgap. Sigh.

[Daniel S Peterson]

Unfortunately for 2nd century reenactors who think these look "cool", I cannot recall any evidence for mail shoulder doubling on any Roman monument or tombstone after the third quarter of the 1st century. The closest thing to this seems to be the scale coifs which are used in association with manica like the carlisle find.

I don't think there is evidence for the Romans ever using butted mail. It is really not very practical in actual combat, but a lot cheaper to buy nowadays.

Dan

[Marcus Mummius]

Save Dan,

What is you opinion about the lorica hamatas pictured on the Adamaklissi monument? Are there some mails amongst them with shoulder doubling?

Best regards,
Marcus Mummius