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Hadrian\'s Wall
#1
This is in reference to two TV documentaries, England's Great Wall and Modern Marvels: Hadrian's Wall. There were three theories made by historians and experts in these two programs that I find controversial:<br>
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Guy de la Bedoyere and Simon James both said that the wall was made partially to keep the troops busy, in support of this Simon also said that the troops in Britain were prone to mutinous behavior.<br>
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My view is that up to time just prior to building the wall the troops in Britain were not prone to mutiny. There were also troops on other similarly quiet frontiers that should have worried emperors more (like the four legions in Pannonia) that were not given such a monumental task. Also as a soldier I find it hard to believe that an emperor would commit so large a force to building merely to keep them busy. Such a task removes units from being 'combat ready' as normal training is replaced by construction duties which do not keep soldiers sharp for battle.<br>
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In stating opinions that the wall was not built to guard a dangerous frontier experts Robin Birley and Stephen Johnson said that a letter from the wife of a fort commander to the wife of another inviting her for a birthday part proves that the frontier was not that dangerous a place if soldiers were bringing their families to live with them on the frontier.<br>
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While interesting I don't regard a single letter as proof of a quiet frontier. A sample of 'one' does not prove a trend. In a frontier that lasted for hundreds of years a letter such as that one might have been written in any quiet period that was part of a fort commander's tour of duty. Also fort commander's wives seem to have been a common feature whereas the presence of the wives of other officers or the unofficial wives of the troops would have been more indicative .<br>
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Finally David Breeze and Brian Dobson, renowned researchers of Hadrian's Wall stated that the wall was not built to repel attackers but to control movement and that the wall was too narrow to defend from. Dobson also said that Romans don't defend from walls but meet the attackers in the open.<br>
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I also disagree with that idea. The wall, even at its narrowest seems to be comparable to the curtain walls of the contemporary legionary fortresses. Though these were certainly not as well designed for defense as fortresses of the later empire they still served that purpose when necessary despite narrow walkways and towers designed for obsersvation rather than to provide flanking shots against attackers at the base of the wall. If the wall was meant to control movement why would the Romans provide so many fortified gates (milecastles)? Certainly if control was the objective they would have restricted movement to as few points as possible. Why would the wall be served by so many supporting troops in nearby forts and fortresses incorportated into the wall? Why not a fence with watch towers like in Rhaetia/Germania Superior or like the later Antonine Wall? Either would be less expensive and just as effective for controlling movement and commerce. I agree that Romans prefer to fight in the open but they would not do so at a disadvantage. One things fortifications do is provide 'economy of force' for the defender. He can use fewer troops to defend a given area if it is fortfied. Surely the 30 or so troops a mile castle could accommodate would defend a section of wall while awaiting support rather than confront a large raiding party in front of the wall. It seems to me that defense was the primary intent, of building the wall with control of trade a secondary objective. <p></p><i></i>
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#2
Perhaps I've been reading the wrong books, but this calls to mind all the ditches that parallel the Wall. I've never heard what the strategy was for having these behind it. <p>Richard Campbell, Legio XX<br>
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Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
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#3
One thing that comes to mind in this discussion is the Roman concept of borders (limites). Unlike our idea, the Romans did not think of a border as a line on a map, strictly dividing Roman territory and the rest of the world. Instead, the border was just an area of gradually declining control, with bridges over rivers and gates in walls as the logical access to the Empire. IIRC 'limes' actually means a crossroad (i.e. a road across a border, allowing communication). <p>Greets<br>
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Jasper</p><i></i>
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster & Editor, Ancient Warfare magazine
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#4
I think the Wall was multi-function.<br>
First it was a demonstration of power. An impressive propaganda machine. The tribesmen north of the wall did not see the narrow walkways. What they saw was a wall going from one end of the horizon to the other. Just imagine the cultural shock. And out of this gigantic construction every once in a while came savage, organized soldiers, and sometimes they'd go all the way to the scottish highlands..<br>
That must have made some tales among the Picts.<br>
It also controlled peacetime movements. Merchants had to go through the gates..And pay the tolls..<br>
Given the threat, its defensive functions were certainly good enough. Cattle raids were probably seriously hampered as well as cattle wandering, something that I never saw mentioned.<br>
To seriously breach it would have needed many warriors and more important would have concentrated all those warriors at a single point where reinforcements from neighbouring forts could tear them to pieces wholesale instead of chasing them --unsuccessfully-- all over the place in stinking marshes and hostile forests and moors..<br>
The fossa at the back of the wall may have been dug to mark the military zone and also to deter people from building right agaisnt the wall. That's one wall less to build..<br>
It looks like it was Standard Operating Procedure. Romans were apparently very fond of SOP, as some forts' gates demonstrate, since they lead nowhere but to precipices.<br>
"I was given the order to build a fort according to SOP, so I build a friggin' fort according to SOP and I don't care if that gate lead nowhere..."<br>
Beneath that wall lies a whole stratum of military bureaucrats at work..<br>
And those Vindolanda letters make me invariably think about life on the American Frontier.<br>
On the whole, Roman soldiers spent more time building things and paving roads than killing barbarians and being Romans, they buit to last. One emperor, Probus, was actually terminated by his soldiers because they were tired of building forts and towers and such.<br>
Indeed the soldiery has to be kept busy lest it grows restless.<br>
There's a famous saying in the US Navy: "If it moves, you salute, it if doesn't, you paint it white". That sums it all.<br>
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<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://lucretius.homestead.com/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 12/16/02 1:07:26 pm<br></i>
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#5
Salve,<br>
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Labour schemes were not much to the liking of the Roman army, most certainly the <em>munifices</em>. Probus indeed paid with his life for the displeasure caused by his employment of troops on public works. The earlier Roman army shared the mentality of his soldiers. Tacitus, <em>Annales</em> 11.20 attests troops petitioning the emperor to award the <em>insignia triumphalia</em> to commanders beforehand to avoid the trouble of the public works they were otherwise likely to have the soldiers perform in order to draw attention to themselves. Activities of a different nature could also cause concern in the Roman army. Suetonius also mentions in the biography of Claudius a petition by troops to award such honours to governors before their appointment to avoid having to fight unnecessary wars. Soldiers were not averse of a leisurely life without dangers.<br>
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Regards,<br>
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Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>
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