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aitor iriarte · 11-19-2003, 04:22 PM

A breathtaking series of beautiful pics, Titus, but it takes hours until they all unfold ! 
(no i'm not thinking of buying a new, more powerful computer for a while !) 
 
Aitor

**Robert Vermaat** · 11-19-2003, 05:53 PM

Titus, Aitor, 
I know archicecture lies close to your hearts, and therefore I really hope I don't step on them too much when I say: 
"You really like that stuff?" 
 
Personally, I find most of the pictures above lifeless blocks of concrete. Sorry, a million times, but even so. 
yes, Aitor, you're right, even with adsl (fast connection) they take long to unfold. Titus, all this (or most of it) seems from the thirties, Mussolini age? I suppose not much of it survived WW2? 
 
Gaudi I like, but it is not a realistic style, I know, because of the costs of such elaborate design. Hundertwasser comes to mind. 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=vortigernstudies>Vortigern Studies</A> at: 11/19/03 6:57 pm

TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS · 11-20-2003, 02:12 PM

Oh yeah! I like that "stuff"! 
 
I can understand you. But I'm sure that if you look at them with the same attention you look, for example, at the Berkasovo helmet, I'm sure you'd see more than lifeless blocks of concrete (the stadium, or the Ver Sacrum building too?). I find Architecture so important because is the big stage of our civilizated life and maybe its mirror. Architecture could be functional, fine, great, horrible, difficult, dangerous, useless, neutral, but it's the main mankind's not natural product and keeping always an eye on its quality is necessary. Art is different has not so many responsibilities: doing it is a more free matter. Of course if you are a little bit trained to see Architecture, can look at it through a more conscious point of view and that's better, but sometimes just looking with attention is enough. The first training can come seeing more architecture you can, that suggests you to know more about its history. Less or more as the history of Roma, maybe we all started at our child age after seeing some Hollywood kolossal, that drove us to go more deeply. 
 
Yes it's all from the thirties (except for the Ver Sacrum building), the Mussolini age: a golden moment for architecture design and arts in Italy. Fortunately all survived safe and sound, all the new foundation cities too. 
Unfortunately only the fantastic aircraft hangar at Orbetello by Pier Luigi Nervi (the poet of the reinforced concrete) was destroyed by the Germans during the WWII. 
 
Valete, 
Titus Sabatinus Aquilius

11-20-2003, 05:09 PM

Titus, I have a hard time to imagine when exactly it was NOT an golden age for arts and architecture in Italy... 
...And painting, and music.. And Ferrari.. And so on..

aitor iriarte · 11-20-2003, 06:38 PM

Robert, 
 
Those buildings are not lifeless blocks of concrete, they are abstract poetry (look at the studi of proportions for the House of the Fascio that Titus has posted here... if it finishes unfolding sometime). And, what is more important, poetry which you can enjoy while you're using it. 
 
About GaudÃƒÂ, the BatllÃƒÂ³ House is not the most fortunate example. I'll expalin, it is beautiful but the building was not designeg by GaudÃƒÂ, he just re-dressed and existing house. To appreciate what GaudÃƒÂ thought on collective dwellings you must look at the MilÃƒÂ¡ House (Nicknamed in its time La Pedrera=Stone-quarry ) 
 
Aitor

TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS · 11-21-2003, 12:01 PM

Quote:<hr> Titus, I have a hard time to imagine when exactly it was NOT an golden age for arts and architecture in Italy...<hr> 
 
Right now, Antonine... 
 
Actually, I cannot figure Italy as the desert of Architecture and Arts, but it's so now. The systematic destruction of our traditional culture (layered in the period going from Prehistory to 1945) is happened in just 58 years and caused the present lack of "true" artists and architects. I think you know the reasons of that, I guess from your talking you know the present Italy enough. Above all, there has been done a surgical (and rough at the same time) resetting of the Beauty. The Beauty is dangerous... But telling about this sad fact should bring to explore some political and religious actions and behaviours that is opportune to not mention. 
 
So what can I say? The Beauty appears as the leopard spots on a uniform background. And Vittorio Sgarbi, one of the men that knows well about the Beauty in Italy without prejudices, recently went close to the power, as Ministry of "Beni Culturali" under-secretary (is it said so in english?) but was fired soon because he's not a smart politician and moreover is now buried under tons of extremely expensive actions at law by judges and journalists. 
 
I mentioned as "golden" that age because, believe or not, firstly, it was an absolutely free period for Architecture and Arts in Italy, secondly because was "new" and original in the way it broke a lot with the past, freely approaching the vanguards but maintaining an unitary attempt. In fact we had in that period really a lot of talented architects, designers and artists outing. While now any talented one is kept out of the games. I don't like to talk badly about my Country, (that looks like our national sport), now in Italy several things are at the best in the world, but that's not in the Architecture and Arts. 
 
Tell me if you find something of good in Italy, about Arts in general, since 1945... (do you remember "merda d'artista"? 
 
Aitor, 
I'd like to post some Mila house image for Robert, but as you well say, this page is already too much "heavy" without an ADSL connection... 
 
Valete, 
Titus Sabatinus Aquilius

11-21-2003, 02:06 PM

Well, actually it loads alright with my high-speed connection... Harr harr harr.. 
But I reckon those pictures are a bit oversized.. 
All of Gaudi's works can be seen --and admired-- on that site whose link I put in a previous post. That includes comments on him by other famous architects and artists showing that he was not only a great artist but that on a purely technical level he was an architect of the highest caliber. 
And yes Titus after 1945 the problem was to rebuild fast and cheap so millions of people could get affordable housing. That gave us the urban landscape we know.. 
My consolation is to think that anyways, in a hundred years from now, none of these monstruosities will be standing anylonger since they're not only ugly, they're also cheaply built and fall apart quite quickly. 
But well, Italy is still the country of design. Luigi Colani is not an architect but he definitely has something to show. 
And I won't even mention automotive design.. 
 
 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://localhost:1094/Homesteads/_1750094854/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 11/21/03 3:50 pm

11-21-2003, 04:25 PM

Gaudi's work moves me like no other. I read that for several of his projects he constructed his models upside down, hanging string from the ceiling to see how the arches form naturally (catenary) by gravity. His parabolic cascading arches are the only thing that could affect someone so enamoured with good old-fashioned Roman arches like me. 
 
His buildings seem so foreign to me as an American. There is actually a fellow in Mexico using this organic style (it is how I found out about Gaudi) to build homes. I know you guys want to confine your discussions to public building but I'm more interested in private homes, something that as an individual I could aspire to some day. 
 
[url=http://www.geocities.com/flyingconcrete/" target="top]www.geocities.com/flyingconcrete/[/url] 
 
What do you think? 
 
an amateur architecture enthusiast, 
 
PAVLVS FLAMINIVS 
LEGIO XI CLAVDIA PIA FIDELIS 
Georgia, USA

11-21-2003, 05:53 PM

Yes I've heard that anecdote about how he "calculated" his arches with strings hanging upside down.. 
As far as light concrete and private housing is concerned a guy called Pascal Hausermann could be interesting. He did some nice things and some not so nice ones with a light veil of concrete projected over a frame of wire mesh. He did an igloo style family home nearby Geneva that was the talk of the town for quite a while. 
Of course, it was a big, multi-room, air conditioned, swimming pooled igloo... 
I've heard that the reason why the New Mexico style houses are built with rounded angles inside and out is because evil spirits hide in the corners of the rooms... 
I like that. Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://localhost:1094/Homesteads/_1750094854/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 11/21/03 7:01 pm

TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS · 11-24-2003, 09:45 AM

You can find a natural link between Gaudi, organic concrete housing, the New Mexico style, underground constructions and F.L.Wright (wow!) in the italian architect Paolo Soleri's famous experiment in Arizona: "Arcosanti". 
 
Arcosanti is a permanent urban laboratory of his "Arcology" philosophy (Architecture + Ecology) in the desert since 1970. Take a look to what this man did and is doing right now: "Cosanti", a really working city in the desert. To tell the truth I don't like so much his style, but I like the bravery of his dream and vision. 
 
[url=http://www.arcosanti.org/main.html" target="top]www.arcosanti.org/main.html[/url] 
 
A vision in some aspects shared with another italian famous wrightian architect: Luigi Pellegrin. 
 
A coincidence was that my brother was a Pellegrin's pupil for about three years, the thing started because in 1986 my brother discovered the hidden and cosmic proportions diagram of Villa Adriana at Tivoli. After that, Pellegrin make my brother know deeply the Soleri's works and after knowing moreover that my grandfather was one of the main plaster modellers in the architect Armando Brasini workshops in Roma, in fact Luigi Pellegrin became architect because when he was a child, his father, a Brasini supplier, took him in the building factories where my grandfather worked in the thirties, and was fascinated by that world. 
 
Valete, 
Titus Sabatinus Aquilius

11-24-2003, 02:54 PM

When in Arizona a few years ago I visited both Biosphere II (big disappointment, they are no longer focused on space colonies, it is just broken up into different big greenhouses run by different universities and companies with separate agricultural or ecological experiments) and Arcosanti. 
 
Arcosanti was interesting but the progress is so slow. Architecture students come to live for short periods, like summer camp. Others stay on for a few years. It is basically a sort of futuristic architecture COMMUNE. The enterprise is funded by the sale of bronze wind chimes (Soleri Bells) which are cast onsite. When you read his theory and see his grand vision for garment architecture skyscraper cities you will be disappointed with the smallness of Arcosanti. However, I really enjoyed walking around the site as it reflects one of his earlier evolutions of theory. He created something called an Apsedra" which combines two architectural forms, the "Apse" and the "Excedra. It is like a quarter of a sphere, oriented to face the southern sun and provides a wonderful place for the many workshops, theaters, gathering areas. One interesting technique they use is to employ sand as a form for making domes, apses, and barrel vaults (being in the desert sand is plentiful !). Before they pour they often etch artistic patterns or even coffers in the sand. When the sand is carried away the reinforced concrete ceiling already has its' decoration built in. 
 
The thing that is so interesting about [url=http://www.geocities.com/flyingconcrete/" target="top]Flying Concrete[/url] is the exciting and artistic possibilities with the use of ultra-light concrete. If you read A Pattern Language by Chris Alexander et al. you will see the theory behind this. I recommend it highly.

Jeroen Pelgrom · 11-24-2003, 03:33 PM

on dutch tv there was a program last saturday about architecture in Mali (Africa). Mosques and other buildings there are made from mud+straw. Very interesting (the mosque in Djenne is even on the world heratige list of the UN). They suggested African architecture from Mali was very popular in Europe around the time of Gaudi and that perhaps he was inspired by it (no sharp corners etc.). 
 
see this link for the mud mosque from Djenne: 
[url=http://www.sacredsites.com/africa/djenne.html" target="top]www.sacredsites.com/africa/djenne.html[/url] Volo anaticulam cumminosam meam!

TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS · 11-26-2003, 03:10 PM

"Frank Lloyd Wright introduced the word Ã¢â‚¬ËœorganicÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ into his philosophy of architecture as early as 1908. It was an extension of the teachings of his mentor Louis Sullivan whose slogan Ã¢â‚¬Å“form follows functionÃ¢â‚¬Â

03-09-2004, 11:29 AM

I found this on the Reuters newswire this morning. 
 
Rome-Born Architect Dreams of Completing Colosseum 
 
By Claire Soares 
ROME (Reuters) - The Colosseum will come full circle if one septuagenarian Roman gets his way. 
Architect Carlo Aymonino wants to rebuild the outer wall of the world's most famous amphitheater, once rocked by earthquakes and quarried to build other glories in the Eternal City. 
"It wouldn't be an Italian Disneyland. In fact it would be the exact opposite -- a careful scientifically correct reconstruction," the 78-year-old told Reuters in an interview. 
His planned revamp could well become the next chapter in a long and often bitter debate about whether archaeological and artistic wonders should be left to succumb to the effects of time or be restored to their original beauty. 
The recent staging of pop concerts and art exhibitions in the Colosseum, where once the baying Roman mob feasted on gory gladiatorial battles, is proof that time for Italy's treasures has not stood still. 
Sitting in his studio, surrounded by sketches and models, the softly spoken Aymonino had more ammunition to use against those arguing for a hands-off approach to antiquity. 
"The Colosseum now has an electronically operated lift which the Romans certainly didn't," he said with a wink. 
Slaves sweated and toiled for about eight years to build the original Colosseum, which was inaugurated in 80 AD with a 100-day festival of ferocious warfare. 
But Aymonino is unfazed by the thought of rebuilding the outer wall of Italy's most visited archaeological site, which attracts almost three million tourists a year. 
"It wouldn't take much, you could use brick," he said. 
 
UNDOING MUSSOLINI 
 
Aymonino also wants to pull up the road built by 20th-century Fascist dictator Benito Mussolini, which carves a path straight through the Roman Forum. 
"It's ridiculous, that street. They covered up lots of ruins and split the Forum in two," he sighed, adding that he doesn't buy the argument that removing the thoroughfare would gridlock an already-congested city. 
"Traffic, like water, always finds a way," he said. 
With the sites reunited, the bespectacled white-haired architect wants to rebuild ruins like the Temple of Mars, which hosted solemn religious ceremonies before being turned into a museum of art. 
"The three surviving upright columns are beautiful but there are bases of many more. So why not put them back up, making them smooth not ridged to distinguish the old from the new?" 
And then, he says, it's time to inject some vitality. 
"We don't need streets of shops but why not have the odd bookshop and cafe dotted around ... something that gives an idea of how lively it might have been?" 
Aymonino gives no figure for the cost of realizing his dream, but his fundraising ideas may stoke controversy. 
"It would be a good thing for someone like Coca-Cola to fund in terms of publicity. They could ... tell the whole world that they'd completed the Colosseum." 
He will hand his plans to Rome's mayor on April 21, the anniversary of the city's foundation. Then it's wait and see. 
But modern-day visitors seem as averse to the idea of reconstructing the Colosseum as 19th-century novelist Charles Dickens, who declared "God be thanked: a ruin!" 
"If there was a risk that the Colosseum would fall down or disintegrate then that would be a different matter. I think the original structure should be conserved," said Alex Wenham, a 26-year-old English stonemason. 
And Lisa Goldscheider, a London lawyer, agreed. 
"It's amazing it's still standing. Maybe it's best not to play with history." 
 
What do you think?

TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS · 03-09-2004, 12:02 PM

Why not? Romans should have done so... Anyway that worries me: a new "architectural" sack? And if they give the whole thing to Meyer? 
 
Who will choose the architect, (not Aymonino: is 7 and then, will we can crucify him if he will fail? 
 
Now, even if the Mussolini's road split the Forum, the City has found an equilibrium around it and you have a magnificent view, you have just to keep off the damned cars. 
Before of the splitting, my grandfather's house was there... 
 
Vale, 
Titus

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