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Caius Fabius · 10-10-2002, 01:07 AM

I think I have read that many of the manipular units, (posterior units?) had "hand" standards. I think this carries on into the Imperial period? The standard with an upraised hand or the hand surrounded by a wreath is the one I am refering to. What units would have used this standard in the time of Julius/Augustus Caesar? Which hand would have been used? 
I have seen both left and right hands used in models, miniatures, drawings and recreations, but what do the actual sculptures, stele and other archaeological records show? 
I would be happy to head off to the library, if someone has bibliographies or citations. 
And what were those "plates on a stick" all about? (I know, but that's how the question was put to me this weekend and I didn't have anything to answer!) So, who had small circular shields on their standards, and why? 
(I didn't find this topic in a search, but I am looking over my shoulder for the beast of AAAARRGG.)

10-10-2002, 02:57 AM

Avete! 
 
I seem to recall hearing speculation that the plates on a stick were similar to phalerae, 
or in a modern context they were 'unit awards'. any thoughts? 
 
Salvete

10-10-2002, 07:49 AM

Salve, 
 
IIRC they used a glove on a stick with some ash trays, a license plate and a banana, which only proves that recollection is easily beaten by looking things up. 
 
Try looking over the other shoulder EM . This question did pop up before (here, in the index under the heading of standards[/link]). In this earlier thread there are some depictions of standards showing right hands. On the Varus forum I have posted more on the standards. 
 
It has been suggested that the hand, in Latin manus, was connected with the manipulus, the handful. This link is however conjectural and there are no written sources that can confirm this. The number of standards used by the Roman legion is variously reported, some sources mentioning standards for each maniple, others for all centuries. There was thus probably a signum for a manipulus and it is definitely attractive to assume a link between hand standards and maniples, but given the lack of source references that still remains an assumption. 
 
The significance of the various decorations on standards is not fully understood, but since some are similar to the dona militaria it is thought that they represent unit awards. As standard bearers are depicted wearing individual decorations, it does not seem realistic to interpret the rewards on the standard as those of himself and/or predecessors. It has been suggested that the discs might signify the particular unit, a set number of phalerae indicating a particular unit, but a survey of depictions appears to indicate that a meaningful connection can not be discerned. 
 
Publications dealing with standards in the Roman army: 
 
Domaszewksi, A. von, Die Fahnen des roemischen Heeres (Vienna 1885). In German, but lots of pics. 
Speidel, M.P., 'Eagle bearer and trumpeter' in: Roman army studies I. 
Stoll, O., 'Die Fahnenwache in der rÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶mischen Armee' in: Zeitschrift fuer Papyrologie und Epigraphik 108 (1995), 107-118. 
Webster, G., 'Standards and standard-bearers in the alae' in: Bonner Jahrbuecher 186 (1986), 105-115. 
 
Regards, 
 
Sander van Dorst

Caius Fabius · 10-10-2002, 01:48 PM

I think the search program connected with this site is not as helpful as I had hoped. Sorry about that Beast of AAARRRGGGH. 
Maybe I should look at the index first, then use the search feature, instead of relying on the search feature alone. (probably better to ask that on another forum). 
Mea Culpa, mea culpa maxima, 
 
 
Thanks Sander! Off to the library to try Inter-Library loans, and to give the librarian more grey hair!

10-10-2002, 02:02 PM

Salve, 
 
The article on standards was reprinted in a more recent collection of papers: 
 
Domaszewski, A. von, AufsÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¤tze zur rÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶mischen Heeresgeschichte (Darmstadt 1972). 
 
This might be easier to find than the original. 
 
Regards, 
 
Sander van Dorst

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