cast bronze helmets

[Anonymous]

<br>
Reading my newly purchased copy of "Roemische Helme" by Junkelmann I find mention of montefortino style helmets cast in bronze. I recall from H Russell Robinson in "Armour of Imperial Rome" that any sign of casting on the bowl of a Roman helmet meant that it was a forgery. Has the accepted wisdom about this changed since Robinson's time? Are some genuine Roman helmets indeed cast, or are some of the (admittedly weirdo looking) helmets in the Axel Guttmann collection (dare I say it) fakes?<br>
<br>
Susan <p></p><i></i>

[Matthew Amt]

Whoa, CAST? I had always thought that real helmets were always forged or spun. Otherwise they are just too darn heavy--I don't think it's possible to cast bronze thin enough for a functional helmet. If it's original and it's cast, could it be for a statue?<br>
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OR---could this be a translation error? Just using "cast" when the original German (?) really means "formed" or something?<br>
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Any help from the folks who have seen these things?<br>
<br>
Vale,<br>
Matthew/Quintus <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Let me know the illustration numbers your're talking about. I must admit, I don't find the idea of casting a helmet likely, despite the obvious higher skill of ancient bronze workers.<br>
<br>
<br>
Celer. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

<br>
I don't have the book to hand (I'm *supposed* to be working just now...)<br>
The German word they use to describe the manufacturing method is "gegossen" which I understand to mean "cast". I think the word literally means "poured".<br>
<br>
Susan <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Join the club. I have a very booring collection of shoddy early C19th pistols to catalogue, and my brains dribble out of my ears at about this point. Its RAT that keeps me going! <p></p><i></i>

[Richomeres]

Susan, you are right. 'Giessen', in this context, means pouring melted metal into a form. 'Forming', as suggested by Matthew, can be translated to 'formen'. However, I would use the term 'treiben', meaning 'beating out'.<br>
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Hope this helps.<br>
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Cheers,<br>
<br>
Helge <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

<img src="http://www.romanauxilia.com/troops/helmets/mainz/mainz 3 helmets.jpg"><br>
<br>
any use? <p><img src="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.martin/AUXILIA/icon.gif" width="46" height="65" align="right">
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[Anonymous]

<br>
Yes, Herr Dr. Junkelmann is adamant that 4th and 3rd century BC bronze Montefortino helmets were cast using a "lost-wax" technique first then cleaned up by polishing, sometimes on a lathe. I'll translate the salient bits of the relevant passage from "Roemische Helme" a bit later on today and post it. The manufacturing techniques changed over the centuries too. I'll post bits of that discussion too.<br>
<br>
Susan <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

<br>
Here you go, as promised. A translation of bits from<br>
pages 53, 54 and 55 of "Roemische Helme"<br>
<br>
Susan<br>
<br>
<br>
"In Etrusco-Italic and Roman examples, the material is bronze, with Celtic examples from the 3rd century BC increasingly iron. The early bronze helmets are mostly pre-fabricated by casting in bronze then worked, which is characteristic especially of the Cremona subtype. The later Canosa subtype was manufactured in the same way but with thinner walls (1-2 mm instead of 2-3 mm). The helmets of the next model (subtype Rieti) appear to all have been raised, or at least all three examples in the Axel Guttmann collection appear to be so. With the latest form of the type (subtype Buggenum) pressing and spinning was the most common manufacturing technique. This, together with the generally cruder results obtained indicate mass production in the period of the civil wars [...] The actual application of casting techniques on these helmets is often hard to trace since, after casting, the metal is hardened by hammering on the inside and polished on the outside, which removes most casting blemishes.<br>
[...] The helmet bowl was first modelled in wax. This model was then easy to work on the lathe [...] then the helmet would be shaped into its slightly elliptical form (possibly in a hot water bath) and then cast in a clay mould using the lost wax technique. Then followed cold working to scour and polish the outer surface and in some cases also hardening with concentric hammer blows on the inside [...] Manufacture using the lost wax casting technique seems in all probability to be the usual technique with the thicker walled helmets in the Talamone and Canosa subtypes, while the later and thinner walled types were raised from a cast bronze plate and with the Buggenum subtype pressing was the most common." <p></p><i></i>