[split] Phalanx warfare: use of the spear

[Paul Bardunias]

but that will only work for you if you are in a front row, with the second row, your spear would have to go over the guy in front of you, and the trajectory you are making would collide with him. (or you would have to be in an staggered formation, not the line formation)

plus, your arm is up at the start, presenting nice target - your armpit, area enemy would definitely want to exploit (not necessarily the one in front of you, but guys from sides.  plus, to me it looks like you need to do quite a lot of movements with your arm this way.


Anyway, if you are comfortable with it, that's fine. what interests me most would be how it would compare in all those areas i mentioned before. and at the same time, what would be the accuracy, or ability to parry, or prevent enemy from parrying your spear sideways (not really something you want to be blocking with your wrist) Because the main problem is to find out the most efficient way how to use the spear (as Dan said, not necessarily the one that gives you the strongest blow) within the formation.

This discussion goes better if you don't make statements like "that will only work for you if you are in a front row" if you have not tried it yourself.  Ask instead "but can that work in the second row?"  To which I will answer "Yes, since we have done this four billion times".  None of what you conjecture above actually happens in real life. 

As for my arm up, sure it creates a target, but this is mitigated by the fact that my body is twisted back as I rear back so my armpit is not facing forward.  It also only happens at maximum rearward extension, most strikes would be less than full strength and start at panel two.  A lot of movements with my arm translates into a lot of range of motion adding force to the strike- that is the whole point!  You can also jab quite effectively.  Remember it is Mathew who tried to set strength of strike as the criteria we should use to decide which they used.  Humorously, he is completely wrong within his own criteria. 

I have already answered most of these other questions. 

The overhand strike:       Has a far greater range of targets
                                     Is both faster and stronger
                                     Can me modified to hit with a range of strengths from a quick jab to committed strike
                                     Parries well, with the shaft- akin to parrying with the forte of a rapier
                                     Recovers easily when knocked off line- you just bring the spear back and it ends up pointing straight ahead
                                     Is more accurate
                                     Is hard to parry because the shaft is angled downwards until the rapid strike- not held out straight
                                     When parried, it rotates harmlessly over head rather that swiveling into someone
                                     When stuck in someone is less likely to get propelled backwards into the men behind you
                                     When angled down completely protects the right forearm from oncoming strikes
Any other questions?

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and on a side note, what i mentioned before, i kinda see the Macedonian phalanx to be an evolution of the hoplite phalanx and not a new concept.. yes, spear got longer, but overall concept to keep enemy at bay was same. Yet, if overarm was the main use of the spear, i would imagine Macedonians to be also trying to hold pikes in similar fashion, so they would be more inclined to come with a grip very similar to the one Pike and Shot era Pikemen used, but instead, they are shown with the underam low grip with it.. why would they go and come with such a completely different fighting style?

A) No one believes the Sarissa to be the direct descendant of the dory.  The Macedonians were either influenced by Iphicratids or by the same influences that led to Iphicrates experiments- perhaps Thracian spearmen.

B) Macedonians are holding the sarissa exactly how all Greek hoplites hold the two handed spear.  But Greeks only use these for hunting.

c) They used a shoulder strap to hold up the front hand, this can only be used if held low.

d) I don't think anyone ever said that hoplites never hold their dory underhanded.  I think this was perhaps the go to position after one side routed.  We are saying it was not the manner of use in phalanx combat.