and im surprised so many people are arguing about it, and nobody actually cared to try it with real replica to hit something... if Chris was wrong, then it would be very simple to disprove what he wrote, yet, his tests are valid. No Human is able to deliver attacks with such posture for too long and his arms and wrists would be under imense stress just after few minutes... in combat, simple things are used, because complications kill you... getting tired in 5 minutes so you cant hold your weapon is something that is very problematic for everybody no matter what era he lived in...
i really dont care about artistic portrayals and those explanations, yet I've seen a lot of guys backing their overarm arguments with Cigi vase, while ignoring very visible ankyle strips on silver head javelins on the far right, while black head spears are there as well in horizontal position... but i dont care.. yet, if somebody runs tests with live people using the spear that way,and reporting they were unable to do this for more than 4 MINUTES, while being incapacitated for another 15 minutes until all the muscle spasms ended... it kinda makes a very strong argument to not use spear in such ineffective way....
besides, if somebody was foolish enough to hold his spear like this in formation... what would stop the other guys holding their spears at the rear end and underarm, using maximum reach and just thrust them forward into enemy heads??? they would be completely defenseless due to enemy spear having more than 1m length advantage, due to being gripped at the back.... with Dory, reach is everything... if it wasnt, you would not use 3m long spears, but instead you would use something shorter and lighter... that would not tire you down in mere minutes...
edit:
which reminds me... If overarm use was a norm.. Macedonians would not need to use 5m long sarrisa to gain a reach superiority over Hoplites... even mere 3m long pike would be more than enough..
i really dont care about artistic portrayals and those explanations, yet I've seen a lot of guys backing their overarm arguments with Cigi vase, while ignoring very visible ankyle strips on silver head javelins on the far right, while black head spears are there as well in horizontal position... but i dont care.. yet, if somebody runs tests with live people using the spear that way,and reporting they were unable to do this for more than 4 MINUTES, while being incapacitated for another 15 minutes until all the muscle spasms ended... it kinda makes a very strong argument to not use spear in such ineffective way....
Quote:Watch the video again, the spears are held at a 30-45 degree angle at ear level, no threat to anyone behind the front rank. Now compare that to any form of underhanded use, which is definitely something that will hit hoplites in the second rank with the sauroter.but they dont have real spears in that video... no sauroters... point of balance is different...
besides, if somebody was foolish enough to hold his spear like this in formation... what would stop the other guys holding their spears at the rear end and underarm, using maximum reach and just thrust them forward into enemy heads??? they would be completely defenseless due to enemy spear having more than 1m length advantage, due to being gripped at the back.... with Dory, reach is everything... if it wasnt, you would not use 3m long spears, but instead you would use something shorter and lighter... that would not tire you down in mere minutes...
edit:
which reminds me... If overarm use was a norm.. Macedonians would not need to use 5m long sarrisa to gain a reach superiority over Hoplites... even mere 3m long pike would be more than enough..
Jaroslav Jakubov
