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the battle of the mauric plains (AD 453)
#1
Probably a long shot as i doubt anyone wrote his down in times as turbulant as Attilla but i was wondering if anyone knew in detial the course of this battle.<br>
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From various scant sources ive seen it appears to me Attilla tried to attack the Roman centre consisting of a tribe of Alans and was then Flanked similtanously by Aetius and the Goths, but beyond that i cant seem to find anything, any info would be greatly appreciated. Particulary id like to know the number of troops involved and there casulties and if possible the role of the Roman cavalry at the battle.<br>
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Thanks in advance <p></p><i></i>
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#2
I do know of a book that I read a few years ago on Attila<br>
and you will be surprised how much is known about that battle and the events leading up to it and immediately after. Attila wasn't some "extraterrestrial" barbarian that suddenly showed up in Europe with strange and savage followers. Attila had been a hostage that spent many years in Rome and the fellow was well known, as were the Huns that are discussed already by Ammianus 70 years earlier and were used as auxiliaries by the Romans 40 years earlier against Alaric. The book I read was originally published in German. I read the Italian translation. Please be patient and I will give you the reference soon. I am away from home now for a period but will look for it once I am back home again.<br>
Ciao for now.<br>
p.s. Ferril in his "...military explanation.." of the fall of Rome does say, and makes a good point I believe, that by 450 AD the huns in central Europe were not quite as horse mounted as they were in the asian plains, and that the battle of Chalons might have been, like all battles of that time, still infantry dominated. This is not to say that the Cavalry didn't have a enormous role, and even a key role (see Adrianople), but it means that those battles shouldn't be imagined as hordes of cavalry charging infantry or opposing forces of cavalry. I tend to agree with him. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/ugoffredo.showPublicProfile?language=EN>goffredo</A> at: 4/14/01 1:07:06 pm<br></i>
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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#3
I read the Italian traslation of the book originally pubblished in German in 1978 by Hermann Schreiber<br>
"Die Hunnen: Attila probt den Weltuntergang"<br>
Munchen, 1978 - 352 S.<br>
(Heyne-Bucher 7053)<br>
3-453-00772-7<br>
<br>
By the way, re-glancing through the book last night I see that this author sets the year of battle in 451.<br>
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P.S.<br>
Maybe the above coordinates are obsolete so I looked throught the web and here is a link to a list of books on the Huns. The book of Schreiber is listed too but with slightly different coordinates<br>
www.ukans.edu/~medieval/melcher/matthias/old/log.started931111/mail-103.html<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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#4
Thnaks man<br>
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Yea i just saw i put 453 thats when Atilla died i think <p></p><i></i>
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#5
First of all, the experts don't agree about the place where the battle was fought. Châlons, Maurica, other places yet...<br>
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The composition of the Armies was heterogeneus, on the Attila's side there was the Ostrogoths at the left flank (and their king Valimiro and his 3 sons) on the right flank the Gepidae, Turingians, Franks, Alani and other tribes submitted to Attila, the Center was almost exclusively composed by his loyal Huns. Some experts said there was over 200.000 men under the flangs of Attila, but modern Historians tend to believe there was a mobile Army composed by a 1/3 of fast Cavalry and mounted horses and the rest of slow infantrymen reaching 100.000-120.000 men.<br>
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The Roman Army was undoubtely far bigger, because Flavius Aetius put his hand over every man he could, perhaps 200.000 men or more. The right flank was commanded by Theodoric and his son Turismond, the left flank was commanded by Aetius himself and included the Roman mobile Army -composed by romanized Goths, Franks, Burgundians and Romans - and the local troops -composed by Romans but only trained to serve as garrisons on walled cities- the Franks and the Burgundians. The Center was composed by the Alani cavalry-not only the tribe of Sangiban, remember the Alani were little tribes of warriors and his warlords were called "kings"- but the second line was formed by the Roman Cavalry to avoid the fall of the center, and close to this line were a reserve of Goths mounted and on foot.<br>
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After the Roman troops win the hill on the flank of Attila center, Attilla launch the first attack against the Alani, but they fight out Attila after a fierce battle, Aetius sent his troops against the left flank of his enemies, but he couldn't break across because he was short of Cavalry (the bigger part of Roman Cavalry was backing the Alani on the Center) and the heterogeneus troops appears to be unable to coordinate their avance in order to exploit the initial succes<br>
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The Roman Cavalry was composed by cataphractarii and bucelarii, Aetius had his own Guard composed by mounted Huns and Alani. In fact the Roman cavalry have little participation in the battle because Aetius didn't want to sacrifice his own Cavalry but his "allies" ones.<br>
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Theodoric crushed the Ostrogoths and he lost his life -some said he was killed by a Ostrogoth knight- Turismond and his knights continued the battle and then, Attila, turn back and left the battlefield, he seems afraid of been surrounded and crushed by the overnumbered forces of his enemies.<br>
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The battle of Chalons was the bigger battle of the Roman History and Aetius only could win this battle with the help of the Goths -his enemies- alone, he would be unable to fight back Attila and, by the way, the Roman Army fought again on its classic closed formation (shields joined), but if only 10-20% of the Roman Army were Romans, remember that some Barbarian Tribes were stablished inside the Empire since a long time ago, so they were in some way Romans or romanized. <p></p><i></i>
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#6
I seriously doubt that the "Roman" side got anywhere near 200,000 men in size.<br>
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What source did you use for this battle account? <p></p><i></i>
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#7
The source is most likely Jordanes' "History of the Goths". The 200.000 figure is doubtful. Jordanes himself was of gothic origin and the fact that the battle pitted --amongst others-- Goth against Goth may have something to do with his grandiose depiction.<br>
What isn't doubtful is that the battle of the Mauric Plains or the Catalaunian Fields was one of the biggest fought in the ancient world and may have involved a grand total of 200.000 for both armies.<br>
Some historians however dismiss the importance of this battle as a world-shaping event and some even wrote books about the period not even mentioning it, as a sort of exercise in style, I guess...<br>
The battlefield lies somewhere near Châlons sur Marne, in eastern France. Its precise location is of course hotly disputed between a couple of villages of the area. I am sure they'll even be able to show you "the inn in which Attila slept the night before the battle"...<br>
..Anyways I hope someday someone will be able to find enough artefacts, like at Alise Sainte Reine for Alesia and Kalkriese for the Teutoburg, to seriously put that battle in its precise location.<br>
Yes, I know, he slept in a tent, not at an inn. <p></p><i></i>
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