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"Praetorian galley"
#1
A question for some of our learned naval-types:<br>
<br>
Marcus Antonius issued a well known series of silver denarii honoring the 23 legions that served in his final campaign (that ended at Actium in -31). Each has on the reverse an aquilia flanked by two standards, and the inscription "LEG--#" (the # being, of course, the number of the legion). There were also issues for his guards. But all coins had the same obverse, a war galley under oars. The traditional description is "Praetorian Galley". Was this a normal term used in the Roman navy (for a 'flagship', perhaps)? Or is it simply the conciet of some 18th century numismatist (the term was in use at lease since that time)?<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
John <p></p><i></i>
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#2
Salve,<br>
<br>
The term <i> navis praetoria</i> was indeed used for flag ship, the commander's vessel (<i> praetor</i>, literally someone who walks in front, leader).<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>
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#3
Then why were the praetorians always REMFs? E EM<br>
<br>
Sander, that's the most concise answer I've seen from you yet. I almost choked when I didn't see the list of references. <p><BR><p align=center><font color=gold><font size=3>
_________________________________<BR>
CASCA TARQVINIVS GEMINVS<BR>
<a href=http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org> LEG IX HSPA COH V CEN VIII CON III </font></font><BR> <font color=gold> <font size=3>
_________________________________</font></font></p><i></i>
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#4
Salve,<br>
<br>
Just following a good example in that respect. E EM<br>
<br>
Old habits are hard to suppress though. The praetorians simply were not always REMFS. They could be involved in combat actions in both campaigns along the frontier and in civil wars (eg <i> Annales</i> 2.24-27; <i> Historiae</i> 2.14; 2; <i> Historiae</i> 3.21-23). In the course of the second and third century they were more often in the field as campaigns increasingly required the presence of the emperor.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showLocalUserPublicProfile?login=sandervandorst>Sander van Dorst</A> at: 1/23/02 5:09:48 pm<br></i>
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#5
<b><i>Quote:</i></b><hr> {Praetorians} were more often in the field as campaigns increasingly required the presence of the emperor.<hr><br>
<br>
That raises an interesting question in my mind. I'll start a new thread for it.<br>
<p><BR><p align=center><font color=gold><font size=3>
_________________________________<BR>
CASCA TARQVINIVS GEMINVS<BR>
<a href=http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org> LEG IX HSPA COH V CEN VIII CON III </font></font><BR> <font color=gold> <font size=3>
_________________________________</font></font></p><i></i>
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#6
So, Casca, I've noticed that the Praetorians are your favorite unit to criticize and summarily dismiss. Any particular reason? <p></p><i></i>
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#7
Not really. They just look so pretty in their starched, purple capes.<br>
<br>
It's the same thing I did to the guys who worked in "the vault" when I was up to my ass in mud down in Panama. <p><BR><p align=center><font color=gold><font size=3>
_________________________________<BR>
CASCA TARQVINIVS GEMINVS<BR>
<a href=http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org> LEG IX HSPA COH V CEN VIII CON III </font></font><BR> <font color=gold> <font size=3>
_________________________________</font></font></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/ucascatarquinius.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Casca Tarquinius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/shop/img/nav/block.char.jbv.roll.gif" BORDER=0> at: 1/25/02 7:25:53 pm<br></i>
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#8
Cool. Caligula wanted us to wear pink! <!-- <p></p><i></i>
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#9
That was that LEAST of the praetorians' problems under Bootsy. <p><BR><p align=center><font color=gold><font size=3>
_________________________________<BR>
CASCA TARQVINIVS GEMINVS<BR>
<a href=http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org> LEG IX HSPA COH V CEN VIII CON III </font></font><BR> <font color=gold> <font size=3>
_________________________________</font></font></p><i></i>
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#10
I know Simon Scarrow makes some things up, but he had the Praetorians leading an assault during the 43 AD Claudian invasion, and I didn't bother asking if that were true or not (he has elephants in there too, so he's taken a lot of liberties. ) I think Sean Bean would be good in that though. <p>Aulus, Legio XX.
the HIGH NOISE/low signal person for RAT.
ICQ 940236
</p><i></i>
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
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#11
Salve<br>
<br>
A praetorian tribune was awarded decorations for his part in the invasion (see bottom of this page).<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>
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#12
IIRC there is an actual reference to Claudius taking elephants to Britain. <p></p><i></i>
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#13
Although elephants were taken to Britain, it is unlikely that they were actually used in the fighting, but rather were there for ceremonial reasons (to make Claudius look good).<br>
<br>
Here's the text where Dio Cassius mentions elephants in the British campaign:<br>
<br>
www.ukans.edu/history/ind...o/60*.html<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On the subject of Gavius Silvanus, the Praetorian officer who was decorated by Claudius the text of his tombstone reads as follows:<br>
<br>
"Gaius Gavius Silvanus, son of Lucius, of the voting tribe Stellatina, chief centurion of Legion VIII Augusta, tribune of the second cohort of Vigiles, tribune of the 13th Urban Cohort, tribune of the 12 Praetorian Cohort, decorated by the deified Claudius in the British War, with torcs, bracelets, medals, <i> (and)</i> a gold crown; patron of the colony <i> (Turin)</i>, by decree of the town councillors."<br>
<br>
Lawrence Keppie is of the opinion that he enlisted as a soldier in the guard, and was chief centurion of the Eighth legion in Moesia. He was part of the Pisonian Conspiracy to murder Nero and was despatched by the Emperor to enforce the suicide of Seneca. When he was implicated in the conspiracy Nero forgave him, but soon afterwards Silvanus comitted suicide himself.<br>
<br>
Useful books for finding out more are: "The Roman Invasion of Britain" by Graham Webster and "Understanding Roman Inscriptions" by Lawrence Keppie ISBN 0-415-15143-0 <p>Veni Vidi Bibi</p><i></i>
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#14
I have little doubt that if the great expense and immense logistical effort to bring elephants on the Claudian invasion had indeen taken place (and there is no reason to doubt the contemporary historians), that the elephants would have indeed been employed in the line of battle. The very point of bringing them would have been to terrify the "ignorant" barbarians who had never seen such an animal. Against an enemy unused to them, they would as as awesome a weapon in 43 AD as they were in 250 BC. Dan. <p></p><i></i>
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