Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Fathers of Rome
#1
I was reading <i> Caesar's Legions</i> about Romulus and Remus, and an interesting thought occurred to me. Maybe they were chieftans of rival villages who decided it would be a good idea to unite against a common enemy, like the Etruscans or some other invasive power.<br>
<br>
I seem to recall fights to the death being a way primitive cultures settled disputes. Do you suppose "Romulus" and "Remus" were fellow chieftans who had such a fight to determine who would be the leader of the newly established united peoples? <p><br><i>SI HOC LEGERE POTES, OPERIS BONI IN REBVS LATINIS FRVCTVOSIS POTIRI POTES.</i></p><i></i>
Reply
#2
I missed this one, odd.<br>
<br>
I think we have to view the Romulus/Remus story in the context of the notions of founders of cities. THe idea of a founder was key to Greek and Roman cities and colonies. Rome needed a founder hence Romulus was invented. I don't think we can read anymore into it than that without pure conjecture becoming a significant issue.<br>
<br>
The story of Romulus has a lot of inconsistencies even in 'reliable' sources like Virgil and Dio, there seem to have been two locations of the hut of romulus for example, one on the Palatine and another on hte capitol. <p><i>Unless the Persians fly away like birds, hide in the earth like mice, or leap into a lake like frogs, they will never see their homes again, but will die under our arrows</i></p><i></i>
In the name of heaven Catiline, how long do you propose to exploit our patience..
Reply
#3
Interesting that people forget the Etruscans. It is time a long overdue tribute be paid! Greeks and Romans have robbed the show for too long. Romulus and Remus are latinized Etruscan names and the city was probably founded by Etruscans or Etruscanized Latins. The direct influence of the Eturscans on central Italy was enormous while the Greek one was indirect. The Greek occupation was almost entirely along the coast line with VERY FEW exceptions, while the Etruscans founded many cities well inside the mainland and they really (concretely) transformed CENTRAL Italy. Just look at the country side in Tuscany and northern Lazio. Rome was well within their southern range of expansion. More to the South was the Greek Naples area while inland one finds the Samnites and other Italic peoples. The Etruscans were certainly influenced by the Greeks but if you find the time to look at their art and study their history you will immediately recognize that they were very self-conscious and developed a very unique culture. The city of Rome was an Etruscan-Latin city and when the Latin element finally prevailed the city was already 2-3 centuries old. One gets the erroneous impression that Rome was not Etruscan simply because Rome fought against Porsenna but then again the Etruscan city states were never politically unified. They remained proudly independent and occasionally fought one another and ultimately they fell under the control of the expanding Rome. By founding cities the Etruscans organized their presence. The Latins simply had a more backward culture. Maybe the Greeks planted the seed of civilization in Italy but the Etruscans quickly transformed that seed into an Etruscan version and they carried the weight of the transformation that brought Italy from pre-history into history. The Etruscans taught the Romans how to build, how to irrigate, drain marshes and organize the country side. In Rome, the valley where the forum is was all marshes. It was the Etruscan know-how that drained those marshes and turned the disorganic group of huts on the surrounding hills into a city. The rituals of the city foundation were Etruscan and the roman religion and art was, well into the early Republic, Etruscan. Even roman family values were of Etruscan origin. The Latin element was there - indeed the city state was not so much an Etruscan colony but a Etruscan/Latin city - and indeed many interesting things the Etruscans had to say died out in the Latin environment. In Etruscan society women were extremely free and equal to men, certainly not true in Greece nor is it typical of Rome. A residual of Etruscan women freedom can still be seen in Rome but only in the richest families or the Imperial courts. Roman history is full of strong personality women that shaped or made history but, to my knowledge, NO such women figures can be found in Greek history! Lets not forget that direct Greek influence in Rome occurred much later. Just remember that Scipio Africanus was heavily attacked and criticized for being too sensitive to the Greek culture.<br>
<br>
P.S. The lack of interest in other aspects of ancient history (Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, thats it) reminds me of a story about General/President Grant. He claimed that he knew only two melodies (tunes). One was "dixie", the other one wasn't.<br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/ugoffredo.showPublicProfile?language=EN>goffredo</A> at: 6/18/01 8:17:53 am<br></i>
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
Reply
#4
Well I don't know whether Romulus and Remus ever existed but excavations at the foot of te Palatine Hill, traditional dwelling of Romulus, have revealed a wall built over the primitive ground, meaning no wall was ever built before this one. It happens too that this clearly defensive wall was built around the middle of the VIIIth cent.BC.<br>
According to tradition Rome was founded in 753 BC...<br>
So Romulus may have not existed but obviously someone around 750 BC was powerful enough to have a wall built. Maybe he was called Romulus, maybe not. But this John Doe built a wall..<br>
Archaeology also confirmed that Rome was not founded by the Etruscans although etruscans seers were certainly invited, as stated by the legend,<br>
to the foundation rites for the simple reason they were the ones with the technological knowledge enabling people to lay a city in the right place. (e.g.: not in a flood area but close to water, easily defensible and so on..)<br>
Rome was apparently founded by an association between Latin and Sabellian tribes, as remembered in the classical episode of the "Rape of the Sabines".<br>
There's a regrettable depiction of the event by french napoleonic painter Louis David..<br>
Snatching wife or cattle from neighbours is a common practice among primitive societies.<br>
The presence of two different cultures --inhumation/the Sabines, cremation/the Latins-- is attested by the presence in archaeological finds of both types of burials on the Palatine, dwelling of the Latins, and the Aventine, dwelling of the Sabines.<br>
Conversely, no etruscan tomb has been found in Rome.<br>
The Etruscans were the most developed society in the area at that time and no doubt Etruscan kings ruled Rome for some time, as also related by the legend. However, there was more trading than warfare and this is attested by the presence of an "etruscan neighborhood" (Vicus Tuscus) in Rome.<br>
The Urbs began as a frontier town at the southern border of Etruria, but it was a Latin town. There isn't a single doubt about that today.<br>
The Romans did not "invent" a legend. They embellished and twisted around real events to turn them into legend. That's different. <p></p><i></i>
Reply
#5
Goffredo, you must have a book or two in mind concerning the Etruscans. I have seen a few in the stores but not sure what a good introduction/overview would be. Do you have any recommendations? <p>Aulus, Legio XX.
the High Noise, Low Signal person for RAT.
ICQ 940236
</p><i></i>
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
Reply


Forum Jump: