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25% of all Romans under arms?
#1
In Charles Freeman's book "Egypt, Greece and Rome" (recommended by the Classics Dept at Virginia Tech) he says of republican Rome "No pre-industrial society has ever mobilized such a high percentage of its male population in war over such a long period of time as Rome. It is estimated that between 9 and 16 % of male citizens in normal times and 25% at times of crisis could be supported in her armies. (Napoleon's France may have equalled this record but only for a few years.)<br>
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How was this amount estimated? How correct was it? It would seem like with a disaster like Cannae that it would be a permanent crippling if they lost those percentages in the field, but they kept bouncing back. Certainly they didn't have 25% of the male citizens under arms during the Imperial period, or perhaps the late republic as well? <p>Aulus<br>
Legio XX
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Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
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#2
Hi Rich,<br>
No note in that book for reference? The question is undoubtedly discussed in Brunt, P. A. (1971) Italian Manpower (Oxford).<br>
<p>Greets<BR>
<BR>
Jasper</p><i></i>
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster & Editor, Ancient Warfare magazine
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#3
I was going to answer your question, i had it all nicely dealt with in an essay I wrote the year before last. Except I no longer have the essay. Or an of the ohters. Or my dissertation. My PC has eaten three years of essays. I just hope I've managed to move them somewhere rahter htan delete them. This will not be good, though from RA.coms point of view it might save them from my piece on Julian and Persia which is slowly being written up. That's gone too. <p></p><i></i>
In the name of heaven Catiline, how long do you propose to exploit our patience..
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#4
@#%$ man, what happened, HD-crash?<br>
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<p>Greets<BR>
<BR>
Jasper</p><i></i>
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster & Editor, Ancient Warfare magazine
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#5
How many legions were disbanded by Octavian-to-be-Augustus after the civil war with Antony? What was the population of Italy then? I vaguely remember that just before the battle of Actium the number of legions was the highest ever, maybe even higher than during the Second Punic War. But then the population was higher too. <p></p><i></i>
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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#6
Well some of it has reappeared after a rebot, but not all. I've managed to salvage my dissertation from a network drive I had backing up elsewhere on my PC. That plus a few back ups on floppiesmean I have about 60% back. The rest including the relevant essay here seems to be gone. I have the original version of the Julian work, but that as Sander and Jenny know was too rough and in the wrong format, all that I did to it aftertheir advice is lost. I have all the first year work, and progressively less after that. pretty much all this years coursework seems to be lost, apart form one or two printouts, which have suddenly become much more valuable and promoted from coffee mat duty.<br>
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Sorry Rich i've hijacked your thread. To try to get back on topic. This info is lifted from my head and Peter Conolly's Greece and Rome at war so treat it with caution, the book is trustworhy, I'm not Polybius gives i think a manpower figure of 700, 000. Now in the Punic wars (all three) Rome probably suffered around a quater of a million casualties. This includes maybe 100, 000 when the fleet was lost in the 1st Punic war and say 80, 000 in the disasterrous battles upto and including Cannae. Now after Cannae Rome mobilised pretty much everybody she could. 30 legions 150000 men. THat was scrapping the barrel htough, slave legions, everyone available over the age of 17 mobilised. It coulds be done, but only in emergency. <p></p><i></i>
In the name of heaven Catiline, how long do you propose to exploit our patience..
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#7
After Actium Augustus reduced his total number of legions from 60, to 28. Some were disbanded, others were merged together and usually had the cognomen of Gemina, or twin. <p>Veni Vidi Bibi</p><i></i>
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#8
Avete!<br>
When I first saw your figure of 25 percent my reaction was that it was way too high. But the pool being discussed is NOT the total population but only adult male citizens. So women, children, foreigners, and slaves aren't counted. Makes it a much more manageable figure, and quite possible, I'd say. Some of those wars bled them white, but yes, they kept coming back.<br>
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I agree that the percentage under arms in the Empire would generally be smaller, since provincial auxiliaries formed half the army, and provincial citizens began to fill the legions.<br>
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And remember that when Augustus disbanded 30-odd legions, some of the troops he discharged were not citizens and had been illegally enlisted. Other units were probably way understrength.<br>
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Valete,<br>
Matthew/Quintus <p></p><i></i>
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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