Late Roman Field Armies

[nikgaukroger]

There were at least three field armies in the East during Constantius' reign- under the commands of these magister's- Magister Militum per Orientem, Magister Militum per Thracias and the Magister Militum per Illyricum.

Am stuck in a hotel at present so a bit away from material (apologies), but could you point me in the direction of where to look for this info please Adrian.

The armies I can recall from Ammianus for Constantius II's reign are the one in Gaul that Julian ends up with (essentially Constantine II's old praesental army?), the one that comes from Italy under Barbatio (Magister Peditum IIRC and is presumably Constans' old praesental army previously commanded by Vetranio) and (I assume) one with Constantius himself (his praesental army, his one third share of what the sons of Constantine I had). There was a Magister Equitum in the east (Ursicinus then Sabinianus), however, when Constantius is away in the west there is no field army in action in the east which (maybe) suggests that if there was an eastern field army it wasn't very large and not up to facing the Persians (maybe why Amida falls?).

Moving to the reign of Valens where you say "Valen's himself commanded the Army of Thrace when he crossed the Danube in three campaigns against the Greuthungi Goths." I'd suggest what he commanded was his praesental army - the half of Julian's old army he got when he and Valentinian split this.

[ValentinianVictrix]

According to Scolasticus Valen's commanded the Thracian field army. I'll have to trawl through all the notes I made for my book and get back to you about the sources ok.

[ValentinianVictrix]

Actually, talking of my book, it might be worth you picking up a copy to see the sources I used for my references Nik, that way be both benefit ;-)

[Protectores Donutici]

I must admit, I am quite confused.

Did the armies have actual names (Other than "in the presence")? Or do we just name the by location?
In addition, were the en prasentalis a concrete formation? Or was the title given to any army that was under the emperor's personal command?

[Flavivs Aetivs]

They do have actual names. The Praesentalis I and II armies, both being stationed next to Constantinople in the Chersonesus and at Chrysiopolis. The Thracian Army, headquartered at Adrianople, and the Illyrian army headquartered at I believe Serdica? The Oriental Army was headquartered out of Antioch. The Gallic Army out of first Trier and later Arles, and the Italic/Praesental army out of I think Aquileia.

[nikgaukroger]

Aren't those the titles of the army commanders rather than the names of the armies themselves? We tend to use them as the army names but did the Romans?

[Flavivs Aetivs]

I'd imagine to a certain extent, yes. Those titles changed as well (Comes Hispenias becomes Magister Militum per Hispenias in 441, Magister Peditum and Equitum become the Comes et Magister Utriusque Militiae Senior and Iunior by 429 AD).

[nikgaukroger]

Magister Peditum and Equitum become the Comes et Magister Utriusque Militiae Senior and Iunior by 429 AD).

Not sure I've come across that before.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Ian Hughes reconstructed it pretty effectively. It was impossible for both Aetius and Felix to hold the Magister Utriusque Militiae command in 429, yet Felix was still alive when Aetius is first mentioned in this position. The only logical explanation is that there was a Junior and Senior command derived from the Equitum and Peditum commands. There are other arguments in support of this dating from Constantius III's holding of the Magister Utriusque Militiae title.

[nikgaukroger]

However, Ian doesn't, as I recall, use the terms Senior and Iunior or suggest that the Romans did. He suggests, again as I recall, that additional titles to comes et magister utriusque militum distinguish seniority between those with the MVM title.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

I'd have to go back and read his book again. I've forgotten so much of this when I used to be able to cite the primary sources off the top of my head.

[Protectores Donutici]

They do have actual names. The Praesentalis I and II armies, both being stationed next to Constantinople in the Chersonesus and at Chrysiopolis. The Thracian Army, headquartered at Adrianople, and the Illyrian army headquartered at I believe Serdica? The Oriental Army was headquartered out of Antioch. The Gallic Army out of first Trier and later Arles, and the Italic/Praesental army out of I think Aquileia.

Do you have any dates for when they existed at each location?

[Frank]

Aren't those the titles of the army commanders rather than the names of the armies themselves? We tend to use them as the army names but did the Romans?

I guess a roman would call the Army of the Comes Thraciae the Exercitus Thraciae or Exercitus Comitis Thraciae.