Trajan\'s Column

[Anonymous]

From what I understand, a good deal of what we know of the Roman military comes from the carvings on Trajan's column. What I'd like to know is aren't most of the interpretations about the carvings just conjecture? <p><br><i>SI HOC LEGERE POTES, OPERIS BONI IN REBVS LATINIS FRVCTVOSIS POTIRI POTES.</i></p><i></i>

[Praefectusclassis]

Hi Marius,<br>
Have you ever seen good pictures of Trajan's column, or casts? What you're saying is correct for some interpretations about tombstones. They are sometimes so eroded that a little guesswork is in order. But the sculpture on Trajan's column is incredibly detailed (so it's sculptors must have known what they were doing) and has survived remarkably well. Besides, the trick is to try to verify information from, for instance, the Column with other information. It isn't always possible, but when it is, it makes the evidence a whole lot better.<br>
<br>
Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

I've only ever seen a few photographs. In one of them, it just looks like a bunch of guys standing around without their helmets, but the caption says, "Roman Officers."<br>
<br>
I couldn't figure out how the experts new they were officers and not just a bunch of guys. <p><br><i>SI HOC LEGERE POTES, OPERIS BONI IN REBVS LATINIS FRVCTVOSIS POTIRI POTES.</i></p><i></i>

[Guest]

Salve,<br>
<br>
The sculptors used several standard models to portray certain types of soldiers. Thus the legionary and praetorian rank and file all appear in tunic and segmentata generally carrying rectangular shields and cavalry of all sorts, standardbearers and most auxiliary infantry are shown wearing breeches, short tunics and mail shirts. Officers appear in muscle cuirasses worn with pteryges, breeches and cloaks. There are a number of anomalous figures that present a mix of these stereotypes and in recent interpretations these are considered to be mistakes of the artists. These include the auxiliary with the rectangular shield, formerly thought to have represented an auxilairy from a <i> cohors scutata</i>, the auxiliary with the animal pelt on his helmet, which used to be regarded as either a legionary light infantryman due to the similarity to the republican <i> veles</i> or the true appearance of the already highly Germanised Roman army (in E. Sander's extraordinarily wacky 'Die Germanisierung des roemischen Heeres' from 1938(!)) and the legionary with zigzagged edging under his segmented armour, thought to have been a representation of n arming doublet.<br>
<br>
For a recent interpretation of this monument read:<br>
<br>
Coulston, J., 'The value of Trajan's Column as a source for military equipment', in: C. van Driel-Murray <i> Roman Military Equipment: the Sources of Evidence</i> (Oxford 1989), 31-44.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>

[richsc]

I seem to remember someone saying Mussolini had made a cast of Trajan's column and reproduced it elsewhere in Rome, which apparently is saving some detail from the ravages of pollution (I hope the Italian gov't has stablized the column). Has anyone else used the molds to produce another copy? Makes you wonder what happened to those molds, which in and of themselves seem pretty important. <p></p><i></i>

[Goffredo]

The column is very documented. Maybe the only way to preserve it and the one of Marcus would be to move them and replace them with copies!! Sounds like something only the ancients could do well and with the necessary decisiveness. Check out the following web site. I found it some time back. They did a very VERY good job.<br>
cheiron.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~trajan/indices.html<br>
<br>
I wish there were a similar site for the column of Marcus and his Marcomannic Wars. It is interesting too but Trajan's gets all the attention. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/ugoffredo.showPublicProfile?language=EN>goffredo</A> at: 6/28/01 1:28:17 pm<br></i>

[Praefectusclassis]

Yup, the casts are in the Museum of Roman Civilization (in Rome, it's in Italian of course, but I'll spare you my version). Some casts of the column are in the Museum für Antike Schiffahrt in Mainz and I believe there is a cast somewhere else (British Museum perhaps????)<br>
<br>
Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[JRSCline]

The Trajan's Column Project of McMaster University is now also at www.stoa.org/trajan -- and you're spot on, Goff, it's great stuff.<br>
<br>
Jenny <p></p><i></i>

[JRSCline]

Hmmm... I went through the BM with a fine toothed comb and didn't see any of Cichorius' casts nor anything resembling them, but maybe they aren't on display..?<br>
<br>
The damage to the original is done, unfortunately; if one looks at the detail on the 19th c. casts compared to the detail on the real thing today, it's striking how much impact a century of acid rain has had. SO tragic that something could stand up fairly well for 1900 years and then in the last 100 or so be worn to near nubs. Grrrrrrrr! <br>
<br>
I'm going to will my estate to an archaeological preservation trust of some sort. Maybe I'll start my own just for Roman military remains. I don't have any kids and don't plan to, so the fortune may as well go to something I find meaningful.<br>
<br>
J. <p></p><i></i>

[mcbishop]

The British cast is in the Victoria & Albert Museum, erected as two half-columns, so not much use for reference purposes. If you want to know why it's in the V&A and not the BM... er, you've got me there! The Romanian cast (in Bucharest) is better presented, as individually mounted panels from the frieze and - better still - is soon going to be made available as a CDROM:<br>
<br>
www.cimec.ro/Arheologie/T...efault.htm<br>
<br>
It looks like it could be a Cichorius for the 21st century... when it appears. I will let everyone here know as soon as I see a copy.<br>
<br>
Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>

[richsc]

I do hope the Romanians sense of time is the same as ours: I see that it will be available in 1999, but I dont' see any place to order it, although I admit I don't speak Romanian.<br>
<br>
Interesting if the Napoleonic copy is still in existance? I wish the Smithsonian were interested in European history, but alas, they have shoved it into a third floor back hall in the Natural History building. Bugs get better press.<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Casts of all the panels are on display individually at eye level in one long room at The Museum of Roman Civilization (Il Museo Della Civilta Romana) in the Roman suburb of EUR. You can get as close to the panels as you like. The museum is a ten minute Metro ride south on Line B from the Colosseum station. Get off at station EUR Fermi and walk a few blocks to Piazza Gianni Agnelli. This is one of the most fascinating and yet rarely visited museums in the vicinity of Rome. There's a separate room devoted to the Roman military with a huge representation mounted on the wall of the terrain and the Roman circumvallation at Alesia. This museum is also the one which houses the vast and famous room size model of Rome at the time of Constantine seen in countless books and films, the most recent being Gladiator. <p></p><i></i>

[Olibrius]

The column of trajan all in long.
http://schnucks0.free.fr/trajan.htm

[Matthew]

Wow. What a nice link. It'll take some time for my browser to show all the pictures! Thanks Olibrius. A laudes for you.

[Edit] I was perusing this link and I noticed about two thirds of the way along a Roman cutting wood in Segmenta with a Sword worn on his left. Very interesting.

Matthew James Stanham[/img]

[Peroni]

I was perusing this link and I noticed about two thirds of the way along a Roman cutting wood in Segmenta with a Sword worn on his left. Very interesting.

there's also a scene involving a Dacian attack on a Roman fort where the auxiliary defenders also wear their swords on the left