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Update on excavations of the Varus battlesite
#1
This article appeared in a local paper in Germany on the ongoing excavations of the site of the destruction of Varus' three legions at Kalkriese in 9 AD.<br>
<br>
A rough BabbleFish translation (below) gives you an idea of what it has to say. The photo of the Augustan-period auxiliaries and the detail that the 'earthworks' the Germanic warriors built as part of their trap for Varus' column had a chalk core are interesting. The latter detail seems to indicate this trap was prepared well in advance of the uprising, rather than something thrown up as the three day battle was still going on. Clearly these 'barbarians' knew exactly what they were doing.<br>
<br>
<i><br>
Where Teutons Defeated the Romans<br>
<br>
In the pit it beeps. Carefully Axel Thiele sets a narrow<br>
grey box to a few limestones. " Beep! " The electronic<br>
drawing equipment measures the outlines of the area<br>
and transmits the data to a computer. What do the<br>
remarkable white stones mean? Why are they<br>
situated here? Thiele and its colleague Ingo Juedes<br>
measure only once. The whole is analysed later.<br>
Thiele operates as an excavation technician at the<br>
museum park Kalkriese, scarcely 20 kilometers<br>
northeast from Osnabrueck. Since 1989<br>
archaeologists examine the area - with large success.<br>
<br>
More than 3500 finds from the Roman time came<br>
already to the light, usually were it Kleinstteile (?) such as<br>
metal fragments. All tracks point out so far that before<br>
approximately 2000 years Roman legions fought<br>
here against Germanic forces. As " battle in the<br>
Teutoburger forest " is the blood pouring admits<br>
become, 'Varusschlacht' calls it the historians.<br>
The finds of Kalkriese terminate a discussion, which<br>
assumed already even historical extents. More than<br>
700 different theories about the place of the fight were<br>
in the circulation. Thus became in 19. Century the<br>
Hermannsdenkmal in the proximity of Detmold<br>
establishes, because many assumed the place of the<br>
battle here. Historians, in addition, hobby<br>
archaeologists and homeland researchers supplied<br>
themselves heated debates. Still today refuse<br>
recognizing some from them persistent, Kalkriese as<br>
place of the Varusschlacht. For Susanne Wilbers rust,<br>
which leads the excavations of Kalkriese, is certain<br>
against the fact that the fight course-carry here has. "<br>
Everything suggests " says the archaeologist. The last<br>
important find was an almost completely received<br>
mule skeleton. The animal must have<br>
been carried of Romans in the unit train, because<br>
Teutons did not have mules. Again a mosaic stone<br>
more, which the scientists can cause to the picture.<br>
<br>
Gusts of wind sweep leaves over the excavation. It is<br>
warm and drying. On the day of the battle, in the<br>
autumn of the yearly nine after Christ, was that<br>
different. At that time it rained. The water transformed<br>
the landscape into a morass. A Albtraum (?) for the Roman<br>
soldiers, who were under guidance of the commander<br>
Publius Quinctilius Varus in the north Germanics on<br>
the way. An ambush of the Germanic chieftain<br>
Arminius, which would enter history as Hermann of<br>
the Cherusker, became the Legionaeren (?) the calamity.<br>
<br>
The fight took three days. About 20,000 humans died.<br>
Many remnants of the battle are still underground.<br>
Archaeologists do not access to shovel and spade. "<br>
But there is to excavation technician or also student ",<br>
says Wilbers rust, who almost each day here outside<br>
on the way is. The limestones, which Thiele even with<br>
the drawing equipment misses, would have used the<br>
Teutons, in order to strengthen their protective wall,<br>
described Wilbers rust. The whole looks like a<br>
coincidentally together-poured heap of white round<br>
stones, approximately as klobige Ziersteine in a<br>
Schrebergarten. Wilbers rust laughs. " Do not think, if<br>
you do not see anything. That can be done to<br>
archaeologists exactly the same ", troestet the drawer<br>
woman. Only after years the view for what states<br>
something over an area, sharpens itself.<br>
<br>
" Which we excavate, " says Wilbers rust is a little<br>
wehmuetig (?). If an excavation is only once dug, the<br>
earth layers for the later research are lost. Each<br>
archaeologist must therefore have in the view that<br>
there could be new, improved research methods<br>
sometime and exactly considers themselves, where<br>
he sets the next excavation cut. In the places, which<br>
examined the archaeologists in former times, today<br>
visitors of the museum park Kalkriese look<br>
themselves over. On the grounds they can throw a<br>
view of the former battle area. In the exhibition, which<br>
is directly in a half timbered house beside it, a part of<br>
the finds is to be seen. Fixed one like the Roman<br>
days on the passed weekend obtain, as humans lived<br>
before 2000 years. Next year is opened a new, larger<br>
museum.<br>
<br>
The way of the excavation to the exhibition leads by a<br>
Waeldchen (?). Bird twitter mixes with engine noise. The<br>
federal highway direction Bram is only few meters<br>
distant. Before 2000 years there were here only<br>
Trampelpfade(?). The unit train of the Romans was<br>
unusually long and therefore an easy target. The<br>
Waeldchen (?) is exactly because of the place, where<br>
once the Teutons lauerten (?)<br>
.<br>
In the museum also the most precious find is to be<br>
seen: a metal mask, which was covered with<br>
silver plating originally. " The mask was not made,<br>
avowedly for " the war for Wilbers rust. The piece<br>
served probably representative purposes. Perhaps a<br>
Roman officer carried it during a triumph course.<br>
When the mask was found more than ten years ago,<br>
suspected no, which beauty hid itself within an<br>
apparent shapeless erzklumpens (?). Only the restorer<br>
Stephan Pat brought the origin form back to the light.<br>
" First the nose looked out ", tells the red-lured man.<br>
Gradually it opened also the remainder of the face.<br>
For the restorer wait still many finds, which it must<br>
examine. Also an end of the excavation is not in view.<br>
The researchers at the beginning of July in a tree<br>
area set the next cut. Then it beeps again at Kalkriese.<br>
</i> <p>Tim O'Neill / Thiudareiks Flavius<BR>
<P>
Visit Clades Variana - Home of the Varus Film Project<br>

</p><i></i>
Tim ONeill / Thiudareiks Flavius /Thiudareiks Gunthigg

HISTORY FOR ATHEISTS - New Atheists Getting History Wrong
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#2
Hi, it also means Arminius knew well before hand where the romans were going to go. Arminius was in the headquaters of Varus so he evidently was completely informed. Interesting the risks Arminius had to take. What do you think happened? Was he physically with the germans during the initial placing of the trap or was he amoung the romans, making sure there was no subtle change of plans or schedule, and passing instructions onto the germans? In either case he could have been caught!<br>
Great suspense<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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#3
Judging from the archaeological evidence and Dio's account it seems Arminius' successful trap was due to his knowledge of the Roman army generally, his understanding of the terrain and careful preparation. The battle site at Kalkriese seems to be where the final stage of the battle took place, rather than the initial ambush, which had occured three days earlier somewhere to the east. It seems Arminius' first two days of hit-and-run attacks were designed the wear down the Roman column as well as to lure them into the final trap. Realising their vulnerability while on the march, Varus abandoned his baggage train and seems to have tried to make his way down into the Lieppe Valley and the safety of the fortresses there - especially the closest fort at Aliso/Haltern.<br>
<br>
A feigned retreat by Arminius led Varus to push westward toward the head of the Lieppe Valley, thinking he was about to break out of the trap. But Arminius knew this would take the Romans around the northern flank of the Kalkrieseburg, and it was there he had prepared his earthworks and the final ambush. This route led the Roman army along a very narrow path between the slopes of the hill and a broad area of marshes. The Cheruscian earthworks also channeled water from the recent heavy rainstorms down the hill and across the Romans' path, making this route even more difficult. Arminius then seems to have pinned the column against the marshes and used his earthworks to retreat behind every time the Romans tried to counterattack. In this way they slowly wore Varus' army down and stopped them from breaking out. Already exhausted from three days fighting in difficult conditions and confronted by a determined enemy which was constantly being reinforced by new warbands, it was only a matter of time before the Romans were destroyed.<br>
<br>
There is little in this evidence to indicate that Varus and his experienced generals were incompetent. There is a lot in it, however, to indicate that Arminius was a very skilled tactician. <p>Tim O'Neill / Thiudareiks Flavius<BR>
<P>
Visit Clades Variana - Home of the Varus Film Project<br>

</p><i></i>
Tim ONeill / Thiudareiks Flavius /Thiudareiks Gunthigg

HISTORY FOR ATHEISTS - New Atheists Getting History Wrong
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#4
Truely impressive everytime I think about it.<br>
A question that comes to my mind (because I am not a Military History expert): is there any battle of more recent times where a similar quality ambush ... sorry ambush is restrictive. Digression: This was a battle! The ambush was the startup and over the three days the armies made ajustments to face the new threats. Arminius was always a step ahead of Varus. I like the idea of a Varus not stupid or cowardly but instead a general, maybe not brilliant, but with good experience and excellent officiers up against a genius. Maybe only another genius could have saved the day.<br>
Sorry about the digression and back to my question. Is their another battle in history that is somewhat similar? Battles are all unique but historians like looking for parallels, analogies and lessons to learn (if it were a waste of time to try to learn from past battles then why teach military history to officiers in acadamies?) The effects of that single Arminius' victory have propagated down european and world history so in that sense it was a truely uniquely important battle.<br>
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<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/ugoffredo.showPublicProfile?language=EN>goffredo</A> at: 6/7/01 1:19:19 pm<br></i>
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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#5
The battles which spring to mind as being similar are Little Big Horn and Isandwana. In both, as in the Teutoburgerwald, an army of natives attacked a technologically superior force which advanced into enenmy territory convinced of its ability to deal with any threat and all but annihilated it. The two major differences are (i) it's likely the Zulus and Plains Indians greatly outnumbered their British and American opponents, while Arminius' are was, at best, about the same size as Varus' or was possibly even slightly smaller and (ii) the armies that the British Empire and the US Army lost in those battles were a tiny fraction of the forces available to them - in the Teutoburgerwald a large proportion of the entire Roman standing army was wiped out in just three days. One estimate figures it was as much as 12% of Augustus' whole force, and they were also experienced, elite troops.<br>
<br>
The Roman sources, especially Vellius Paterculus, place the blame for the disaster squarely on Varus and most modern authorities regularly speak of his 'incompetence' and of how he was 'a lawyer, not a soldier'. I think we have to keep in mind that Varus made a convenient scapegoat, being, as he was, conveniently dead. While he was not a 'soldier', most Roman governors weren't. He'd seen successful military action in Syria where he attacked Sepphoris and put down a revolt - crucifying 2000 Jewish rebels in the process. And with him were experienced officers who'd served over the Rhine for many years, including senior centurions who, by 9 AD, would have been stationed on the Rhine and served in Germania for the whole of their military careers. Add to this Germanic auxiliaries who knew the terrain and the local tactics, and the image of a clueless lawyer foolishly leading an army of 15-20,000 troops to their doom becomes even more difficult to believe.<br>
<br>
A close reading of Dio shows Varus and his officers did what they could to break out of the trap. Their proble was that, once Arminius began his attacks, they were already on the defensive and at a disadvantage. Unable to deploy in the open and unable to fully come to grips with the enemy at any point in the battle (except one action which was probably a feint by Arminius anyway) they simply couldn't use their tactical superiority to full effect. Like any good tactician, Arminius used 'force multipliers' to stregthen his weaknesses while neutralising his enemy's strengths.<br>
<br>
His skill as a general is also shown by the fact that, six years later, he got <i> another</i> three legions under Caecina at his mercy and was only let down by the undisciplined nature of his warriors. There again he used forced marches and engineering - diverting streams into a marsh to help trap the Romans - and almost destroyed another major army, this one led by a famous general. He could easily have gone down in history as the man who defeated two superior Roman armies and wiped out no less than <b> six</b> legions in as many years! A remarkable man by any measure. <p>Tim O'Neill / Thiudareiks Flavius<BR>
<P>
Visit Clades Variana - Home of the Varus Film Project<br>

</p><i></i>
Tim ONeill / Thiudareiks Flavius /Thiudareiks Gunthigg

HISTORY FOR ATHEISTS - New Atheists Getting History Wrong
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#6
Yes he almost repeated himself. And the second time exemplifies even more that Arminius was a commander of enormous quality. This time the Romans knew they were in a HOSTILE country while Varus had his guard down as he believed that Germany was pacified after 20 years of occupation and that Arminius was a friend. The issue of the second battle and Arminius' faliure (not a Roman victory) is interesting as it points out how far ahead of his time Arminius was. There always were charismatic war lords that could group together large bands and "armies" (Ariovistus) but Arminius got the many bands and tribes to fight united. It was a one-time thing unfortunately because the german society was so fragmented (anarchic) and to have ONE person have so much power was not natural. From this perspective the victory of Arminius over Varus was due to him alone while his failure was not his doing but of his fellow germans.<br>
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p.s. This "infantile" behavior was seen more than a century earlier when the Teutones and the Cimbri destroyed an even larger Roman Army (Arausio). If I remember properly the Cimbri entered Italy and instead of attacking Rome they simply enjoyed the weather and food of the Po plains just south of the Alps. The Romans admired the vigor and recognized how dangerous the Germans were but they also smiled at their infancy, but not with superiority but with a form of nostalgia that one still finds in Tacitus regards the Germans of his time. Once the Romans had that same "childish" outlook on life and they recognized them as they were once were too. In fact another way to "read" Tacitus is to read it as a critique of Roman society as it had become! Tacitus is so generous in describing the Germans because he wants to criticize the Roman decadence. There is a parallel in U.S. history. Sophisticated parts of the U.S. public in the West coast felt great empathy and admired the Indians fighting for their freedom and they envied the simple Indian outlook on life with is deep spiritual contents. Unfortunately the two worlds were on a head-on collision course and the more nobler aspects of the Americans remained largely unlistened to. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/ugoffredo.showPublicProfile?language=EN>goffredo</A> at: 6/8/01 12:14:24 pm<br></i>
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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