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03-02-2001, 06:10 PM

I have been reading alot lately about the legions but I havent come across any specific descriptions of something that would resemble our ideal of ' boot camp'. Any info would be apreciated.

03-03-2001, 10:18 AM

Salve, 
 
There is a quite ordinary explanation for the fact that you have not been able to find out about a Roman sort of boot camp: they simply did not exist. Each unit would train its own men and there were no specialised training units and training schools that would deliver fully trained recruits to the various military formations. This did not mean that they did not train recruits, but their approach was merely different from thoat of modern armies. 
 
Most of the information of training of recruits that has survived comes from a single source, the Epitoma rei militaris written by Vegetius. The problem with this work as a historical source is that it mixes information drawn from various stages of Roman history together with some ideas fabricated by the author himself. This makes it difficult to assess reliably the information contained in it and relate it to specific periods of Roman military history. However most modern authorities consider his description of recruit training as valid for the imperial army. 
 
According to Vegetius a recruit (called a tiro or iunior), had to have passed his examination before starting a training period of four months or more when failing to pass out at the end of the course. In this period the recruit would first be trained in the military step, learning to march and manoeuvre in dressed ranks. In addition there would be an emphasis on physical training with running, jumping and swimming all part of the program. Weapons training was also done with special weighted training weapons. This was divided between basic and advanced weapons training, the latter known as the armatura. All troops practiced fighting with swords, javelins, stones and those with aptitude were instructed in archery as well. Recruits had two training sessions a day, whereas soldiers had just one. The recruits were also trained in mounting horses under arms and in marching with heavy packs. A further training requirement was that of building camps and fortifications. After his training period the soldier was examined by senior officers and if performing to standards would finally be accepted as a soldier ( miles) and entered in the unit records. 
 
Once a recruit was a soldier he could undergo further advanced training as a discens or trainee to qualify for promotion to specialist of NCO posts. In part mounted units (ie infanty units with organic cavalry) infantrymen joining the cavalry would also have to undergo training as a discens equitum before acceptance as a trooper. 
 
To instruct the troops there were numerous specialist functions in the imperial army. Known from litery and epigraphic sources are the campidoctor (exercise field instructor), doctor armorum (weapons instructor), armidoctor (weapons instructor), exercitator (cavalry instructor), hastiliarius (cavalry javelin instructor) and campidoctor sagittariorum (archery istructor). Some of these were NCO's while others had officer rank. 
 
Almost forgot to add: the armatura (the same word was used in Latin for both training and instructor). 
 
Officer training as known today with military academies and war colleges did not exist. Officers were partly directly commissioned from civilian life or promoted from the ranks after prior service. Upper class youths opting for a career or term in the military could have joined a iuventus organisation before enlistment, but these apparently limited their instruction to riding skills and weapons handling, and for their theoretical knowledge would be depending on the available literature of military treatises, collections of stratagems and histories. As far as is known from the currently available sources the army did not provide formal training to its novice officers, all instruction perhaps done on the job. 
 
Regards, 
 
Sander van Dorst Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showLocalUserPublicProfile?login=sandervandorst>Sander van Dorst</A> at: 3/4/01 9:45:12 pm

**richsc** · 03-03-2001, 03:29 PM

Dont' you wish you could come across the equivalent of a training manual from the first century? They had to all train/dig/march about the same way, so how did that get communicated? Oral history? Cross posting of centurions? I keep hoping someone will dig a manual up from Vindolanda..maybe someday. 
 
Isn't it Preddie who keeps arguing for the existance of a staff college? Deductive reasoning, but it must have been a specialty in the Roman army. Richard 
[email protected]

03-04-2001, 10:09 AM

Salve, 
 
It is still one of my dreams that we may one day have the original sources used by Vegetius available, which could finally settle some long ranging arguments about his accuracy and dependability. 
 
You name the method which is also considered important for maintaing similarity in training in modern studies on the Roman army yourself.The cross posting of officers and the promotion of guardsmen and legionaries (praetorians as legionary officers, provincial and imperial horse guards as auxiliary NCO's and officers, legionaries as NCO's and officers of the auxilia) may have served to enforce some general standard of training and combat techniques according to M.P. Speidel. Nevertheless the working up period when troops were assembled before starting campaigning suggest that some familiarisation with other units was thought beneficial. 
 
There were training manuals available, but it is not sure whether the writing of such works would be encouraged by the state or simply a product of individuals' own taste and interests. Plinius the Elder was known to have written a treatise on throwing of javelins, while Arrian's Tactica seems to reflect actual Roman cavalry training (some elements can be recognised in a speech by Hadrian addressing legio III Augusta and auxiliary units). 
 
The senior military officers would generally come from an urbanised elite and would already acquire a basic understanding of the problems surrounding supply of food for large numbers of people. While performing civic duties in cities they would acquire experience organising bulk supply for civilians which would be useful when tasked with supplying armies during a military post in their career path. They thus could have had some sort of basic understanding of logistics already. 
 
Regards, 
 
Sander van Dorst

03-04-2001, 06:03 PM

Very good ! are there any sources or books besides vegetius that would breakdown the specialties and the training process that each soldier would go through if he would rise from ordinary legionairre. I believe I read that you wrote a thesis on these specialties ?

**richsc** · 03-04-2001, 07:23 PM

Did you see the article about the resurrection of the library of Julius Caesar's uncle in Herculaneum? Some 1300 scrolls were excavated in the 18th century and, thankfully preserved, even though they all are (or were) illegible. But the article says that new digitizing techniques can now read these! And Caesar's uncle! I'll be on the edge of my seat waiting to see what they can now decipher. 
Anyone have anything more than the brief news article that was dated Feb 11? 
 
www.independent.co.uk/new...0201.shtml 
Richard 
[email protected]

03-04-2001, 08:43 PM

Salve, 
 
My thesis was on the weapons specialists (eg skirmishers, archers, cavalrymen, slingers) within the legions in the late republican and imperial armies. I did however collect the available evidence on weapons training and the instructors for it. 
 
There is a specialist study, in German though, on training in the republican and imperial armies: 
 
G. Horsmann, Untersuchungen zur militaerischen Ausbildung im republikanischen und kaiserzeitlichen Rom (Boppard 1991). 
 
It is very useful and gives an overview from the ad hoc approach used in republican armies, where armies were trained on the march to the battlefield, to the more rigid and regularised training in the imperial army, where there were special instructors to teach drill and weapons handling. 
 
A very interesting book on cavalry training is: 
 
A. Hyland, Training the Roman Cavalry: From Arrian's Tactica (Alan Sutton 1993). 
 
This mixes the available evidence in this treatise by Arrianus with practical input from an experienced rider. 
 
Very useful articles, in English, can also be found in: 
 
R. Davies, Service in the Roman army (Edinburgh 1989) 336p ('Joining the Roman army', 'The daily life of the Roman soldier under the principate', 'Fronto, Hadrian and the Roman army', 'The training grounds of the Roman cavalry'). 
 
In this collection of previously published papers a good overview is given of both the recruit's and the fully fledged soldier's training. 
 
An English translation of Vegetius is available: 
 
N.P. Milner, Vegetius: epitome of military science (Liverpool 1993). 
 
 
Regards, 
 
 
Sander van Dorst 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showLocalUserPublicProfile?login=sandervandorst>Sander van Dorst</A> at: 3/5/01 8:56:08 am

Eleatic Guest · 05-27-2006, 03:21 AM

Quote:Did you see the article about the resurrection of the library of Julius Caesar's uncle in Herculaneum? Some 1300 scrolls were excavated in the 18th century and, thankfully preserved, even though they all are (or were) illegible. But the article says that new digitizing techniques can now read these! And Caesar's uncle! I'll be on the edge of my seat waiting to see what they can now decipher. 
Anyone have anything more than the brief news article that was dated Feb 11? 
 
<a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/UK/Science/2001-02/latin110201.shtml">www.independent.co.uk/new...0201.shtml 
Richard 
[email protected]

I dont want to resurrect quasi-ancient threads, but this 'news' made my fingers now itching irresistibly! Anyone having an idea what became of this project?

***Praefectusclassis*** · 05-27-2006, 08:15 AM

Oh, as far as I know they're still working on it, but it's not like they're now rolling out the texts...Afaik, most of what has been read is poetry, poetry and maybe some philosophy. No missing books from Livius, Strabo or Appian (to name but a few I'd like to see!)

Malko Linge · 05-31-2006, 07:25 PM

Hey,

here is a link for the papyri

http://www.herculaneum.ox.ac.uk/books.html

http://www.utexas.edu/utpress/excerpts/exarmver.html

They found some fragments of the 6. book of Ennius.
Some "new" philosophic texts from Philodemus and others. Philodemus lived with Cicero in the same time.
A Poem about the Octavian battle by Actium.
Few words from Lucretius. De rerum natura. They found a lost line in it.
So I hope hope, they will work very hard on it, so we can read more lost texts

Malko
____________

Christian

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