Criminal History: Ancient Rome

[Gaius Octavius Drusus]

Ave et salutatio:<br>
<br>
What are the opinions on R.A.T about this program, which aired last night on the History Channel? It seemed to be rather entertaining, with an interesting combination of cop-show jargon and historical commentary.<br>
<br>
Vale:<br>
<br>
Gaius <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

If you missed it (I did), looks like it will air again on April 15th at 12:00PM. Set you VCR's and TIVO's if you working. <p></p><i></i>

[Iulia Cassia Vegetia]

I just watched it last night at 3:00 am, since I couldn't sleep. It's difficult for me to comment on how accurate it was since I haven't studied Roman criminal history, but they pointed out that Rome was basically a mafia system, which I do know to be true. It was interesting to see Dan Peterson commenting on weaponry and armor. Overall, I thought that the program was well done, and I'd gladly see it again. <p>Pax et Lux,<br>
Julia Legio III Cyrenaica<br>
Maker of Amphorae<br>
<br>
"As you change your thoughts, so you change your world..."<br>
</p><i></i>

[Daniel S Peterson]

...and if you watch closely, you may also notice I was the "evil centurion" in the dungeon!<br>
<br>
Dan <p></p><i></i>

[Goffredo]

I am not sorry to say that to say the roman system was basically a mafia system is foolish ang ignorant of what the mafia is and how it arose.<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[TFLAVIUSAMBIORIX]

dont know if it is accurate or not, but the urban cohorts looked like auxiliaries, good show though, deepeeka gear really helped the accuracy.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
T F AMBIORIX<br>
TESSER<br>
COH I NERV <p></p><i></i>

[John M McDermott]

Dan Peterson made a comment that the average lorica hamata weighed around 35 pounds. I have worn a hamata that weighed that and one that weighed more. It became very apparent that this is just not practical, particularly when you add in the other stuff a Roman soldier wore. Currently, I am working with Erik Schmidt to produce an absolutely authentic shirt. Our current estimate is somewhat under 20 pounds. <p></p><i></i>

[Iulia Cassia Vegetia]

Actually, the mafia as we know it today in the states and that of Italy some 50 years or so ago were two entirely different things. I base this on first hand accounts from older folks I've spoken to in Italy about it who remember. Back then, the mafia system, especially in Sicily and Naples, was a way of life where folks lived by a certain code of honor or code of ethics, and each town was run by a Don. I believe that the ancient Roman system was much more like the Mafia system of old than that of today.<br>
Hey Dan-I did see your "evil centurion" impression-heheh <br>
Pretty neat. <p>Pax et Lux,<br>
Julia Legio III Cyrenaica<br>
Maker of Amphorae<br>
<br>
"As you change your thoughts, so you change your world..."<br>
</p><i></i>

[TFLAVIUSAMBIORIX]

I have no problem whatsoever going on route marches, and fighting in my 35 lb. hamata, and I sometimes do near full contact with real weapons in my own group. <p></p><i></i>

[TFLAVIUSAMBIORIX]

I am not implying that most of the rest of you don't do full contact with real weapons, It came out that way. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

The show will actually air twice on April 15th. Noon and 6pm EST<br>
<br>
Slayer <p></p><i></i>

[Daniel S Peterson]

John,<br>
I was giving the weight based on a modern reconstruction of riveted 8mm wire link mail.<br>
<br>
I agree that you could get the weight down to 20 lbs with stamped sheet rings. There is some good stuff out there now from India. Ironically, although I have pestered Deepeeka for several years to make this, other companies have beat them to the punch, but they will probably market it too since most is made in their town for everybody. They are all made in the homes of Moslem women in Meerut.<br>
<br>
Dan <p></p><i></i>

[John M McDermott]

Dan,<br>
<br>
It's not just the stamping, but the iron itself. Iron, we have come to believe is a stretchy metal, which tends to twist and bend and not snap. This begs the question:<br>
<br>
Why "weave" iron into mail? Why not just hammer it into plate? This is done in the form of the lorica segmentata, but mail continued to exist and be made, in spite of the staggering amount of labor that went into one shirt.<br>
<br>
I think there is a secret about the structure of the mail itself that makes it a great armor. My reasoning goes like this:<br>
<br>
If an arrow strikes a solid plate, all of the energy is concentrated into one small point. If an arrow strikes mail, it is channeled into one of the holes and the energy dissipated into the surface of the ring diameter. Some engineering type could have fun with this formula, but I will have to leave this to one of them. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

You mirror my thoughts exactly Mr McDermott Poor reconstructions have led to some false assumptions about the true effectiveness of mail. I also agree with your estimate of an authentic hamata weighing less than 20 pounds. I would be very interested in reading the results of your work. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=danielraymondhoward>Daniel Raymond Howard</A> at: 4/5/05 1:13 am<br></i>

[John M McDermott]

Yes, as will I. Erik's hands are about to wear out, he says. <p></p><i></i>