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03-10-2005, 01:23 AM

I have been doing some reading on training and recruits and I need some help chasing down some details. The "signulum" or lead tag kept in a leather pouch--are there any extant examples? Is this in a source? Do we know what the shape was, or what it said? 
 
The oath of allegiance--is this only in Polybius, do we have the words or do we just have what he said? 
 
Finally, does anybody know of a reconstruction of a groma? I have seen a few drawings in Connolly, but nothing too detailed. 
 
Thanks in advance for your help, 
Alan

Caius Fabius · 03-10-2005, 02:27 AM

There was a reconstruction of a groma at the Dover museum, the Saalburg museum, and I think at the South Shields museum. I think all are on my Photo CD, but I may not have included the Saalburg one. "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer

***Praefectusclassis*** · 03-10-2005, 06:23 AM

Legio II Augusta (Britain) have a groma, and I think the RÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶merCohorte Opladen as well. Greets 
 
Jasper

03-10-2005, 07:34 AM

There's a bit on LEG II AVG's groma activities here: 
 
www.legiiavg.org.uk/military/groma.html

Mithras · 03-10-2005, 08:52 PM

My signaculum is a small lead disc (OK - 'discoid') hammered from lead, that has on one side my name 'G.FORTVNATVS' and on the other 'COHORS V' and 'C SILVANUS' (5th cohort, century of Silvanus). I based all of this on inscriptions found on Hadrian's Wall. 
 
My source for the signaculum is Southern and Dixon (The Late Roman Army). Pg. 74 tells of a Christian being press-ganged into the army in 295 who refuses to accept the signaculum. "Give him the signaculum". Maximilianus resisted and replied "I do not do so. I cannot serve as a soldier. I am a Christian/ I do not accept the signaculum of the secular world, and if you give me the signaculum, I will break it, because it has no validity. I cannot carry a piece of lead around my neck after the sign of my Lord". 
 
I wear mine in a little leather pouch on a thong around my neck. I don't know where I heard this, but it a) makes the disc look less like a modern dog-tag, and b) keeps your clothing clean/protects from lead poisoning 
 
Interestingly, it seems that by Vegetius time tatoos replaced signaculum - all those nasty press-gangs ... Paul Elliott/Caius Fortunatus 
 
3rd Century Auxiliary (Cohors Quinta Gallorum) 
 
4th Century Legionnary (Comitatus) 
 
www.geocities.com/zozergames/interactive.htmlEdited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=mithras@romanarmytalk>Mithras</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://forum.rpg.net/image.php?u=140&dateline=1069884232" BORDER=0> at: 3/10/05 9:53 pm

03-11-2005, 01:38 AM

thanks to all on the groma, that is a great start for me. 
 
Paul/Cauis-I have read of the lead/leather pouch in Goldworthy's The Complete Roman Army. 
 
Are the insciptions in reference to an individula, or what are they about? 
 
I am considering using the idea of a training camp and new recruits as a all day class activity for my history class. I would rquire a lot of prep and the help of my own legion (the XXII), so I am looking for ways to give students a hands on feel for the roman army--but as new recruits I don't have to suit each one up in their own lorica. 
 
I would have to mass produce the signaculii (?) before hand which would exclude their names. That is why i was interested in the shape, images and words on them. 
 
Thanks for your help, 
Alan

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